You forgot to mention North Korea.

There, your daily cleanse is over.

Now can we get back to the topic?

"No, you said that all nuclear attacks are the same"

No I didn't, because...

"And then you went on to produce excuses for the incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

^I said right there that the first time WAS different (not so much with Nagasaki.)

Since then, yes, all nuclear attacks would be same in that they have devastating repercussions...and as you coined and used the term "sympathy genocides," and I did not, please don't put those words in my mouth--

I don't know where they've been.

(Actually, I do, and that's how I know they're disgusting.)

The latest from Gaza is Israel targets civilians, Obi defends it and calls everybody else an anti-Semite.

Isn't that what every thread has been about?

I see this discussion is still going strong.

In lighter news, the cease-fire went into effect this morning (Israel/Palestine time) and as of now (2:30 am) has not been broken. So there's that.

Right, carry on...

"Now can we get back to the topic?"

Sure--so tell me, Putin, why do you view it as moral to support a group, Hamas, that advocates, calls for, and actively says it wishes to implement the genocide of the Jewish people?

That's humanitarian and caring...

No, you certainly did not use that phrase (that would imply you think such an act would be wrong), but you think exterminating Iran out of sympathy for London is permissible, because you love Shakespeare or something.

Your evidence for this is Palwatch.

No, I gave other sources, in this same thread...

And as the palwatch YouTube video is taken from Al-Aqsa, the Hamas TV station, I think that's fair game...or are Hamas' own TV broadcasts not a reflection of their views?

"No, you certainly did not use that phrase (that would imply you think such an act would be wrong), but you think exterminating Iran out of sympathy for London is permissible, because you love Shakespeare or something."

Not what I said, at all...I never used the term "exterminate"...

And I thought you wanted so badly to get back on topic, Putin?

Come on...answer, why are you a backer of Jew-hating Hamas, who in its charter and in its speeches have repeatedly called for the extermination of the Jewish people?

http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2014/08/05/hamas-jews-christian-blood-matzah/

Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdan Monday refused to deny that Jews use the blood of Christians – the ancient “blood libel” – to make Passover matzahs.

This is what Israel is dealing with. And this is also, unfortunately, who Secretary of State John Kerry wants to deal with.

Hamdan appeared on CNN with Wolf Blitzer"

^The group Putin advocates, ladies and gents...

Blood for matzoh.

What a nice guy...

I'm not a backer. If I were Palestinian, I'd support PFLP-GC. But I support Palestinian right to self-defense against Israeli aggression and make no apologies for that.

And since I answered your question, why do you support Palestinian-hating Israel, whose leaders have repeatedly called for the extermination of the Palestinian people?

Putin, name one leader with any serious electorate who called for it. And not just a name, a source as well.

"I'm not a backer. If I were Palestinian, I'd support PFLP-GC. But I support Palestinian right to self-defense against Israeli aggression and make no apologies for that."

You've supported Hamas repeatedly these last few weeks, in their actions and their rhetoric...you may say you'd prefer another group, but you don't seem to take issue with Hamas at all, and have repeatedly defended Hamas.

"And since I answered your question, why do you support Palestinian-hating Israel, whose leaders have repeatedly called for the extermination of the Palestinian people?"

1. You really didn't answer, you answered with "I don't back the group that I've been arguing in favor of for the last few weeks"...nothing but support for and defenses of Hamas the last few weeks, Putin, I think you've dug that hole by now.

2. I already answered this, saying I would not vote for those parties, and don't support the Likkud party in particular.

Wait, PFLP? So you support armed resistance by communists? LOL, pardon my internet-french...

Out of curiosity, where did you go for the last couple weeks, H.H?

You were sort of here in these debates (that have been very much ongoing) and then left.

But you've supported Israel repeatedly these last few weeks, in their actions and their rhetoric. You may say you'd prefer another group, but you don't seem to take issue with Israel/Likud at all, and have repeatedly defended Likud.

"Wait, PFLP? So you support armed resistance by communists? LOL, pardon my internet-french..."

You're shocked he'd support such a group?

...H.H...you don't know Putin very well, do you? :p

"But you've supported Israel repeatedly these last few weeks, in their actions and their rhetoric. You may say you'd prefer another group, but you don't seem to take issue with Israel/Likud at all, and have repeatedly defended Likud."

1. I don't believe I have ever specifically defended Likud, but rather Israel as a whole, in the same way I would defend America as a whole, but wouldn't defend the Tea Party (Likud is more mainstream than the Tea Party, I'm using them just as an example of a group I wouldn't include in a broader defense of America.)

2. Their actions vs. Hamas? Yes--

As I said previously (I forget if it's in this thread or another), I would frame this not as Israel good/Hamas bad, but Israel being better than Hamas.

Considering how low that sets the bar, being better than Hamas, it isn't hard to support someone vs. them.

Now, if it were Israel vs. another group, that might be different, ex., I've repeatedly said I find them in the wrong in the West Bank.

And defending Hamas from your lies doesn't make me a supporter. Just because I don't believe every slander you write about somebody doesn't mean I'm ideologically the same as your target.

"Putin, name one leader with any serious electorate who called for it"

I already did. The leader of Shas. Read the thread and try paying attention.

No serious electorate? 800,000 Israelis came out to mourn him.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/shas-spiritual-leader-abbas-and-palestinians-should-perish-1.310800

And this isn't including the deputy Speaker and main Likud faction leader who called for concentration camps. Or Gilad Sharon, who called for turning Gaza into Hiroshima.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/A-decisive-conclusion-is-necessary

1. I was gone because, frankly, this was the one topic everyone around here talked about (for understandable reasons), all my facebook feed and conventional media were filled with it, so I was kind of sick of it all. Now that things seem to be cooling off, I can look at it in a more level-headed way.

2. No, I don't know him very well. But I'm beginning to... I have to admit I've never met people with such extreme views before. It's fascinating, really.

" I don't believe I have ever specifically defended Likud"

I haven't specifically defended Hamas, but rather the Palestinians as a whole. As usual you're a hypocrite.

It's only extremism if it's not your side, right H.H?

And it's easy to claim you've never seen extreme views when your head is in the sand about the rhetoric coming out of Israel. But hey, we've gotten used to this ignorance.

About Ovadia Yosef, I have to say I am not surprised. I forgot about him. He frequently made such statements. Nothing about killing that I know of, but really inflammatory language towards anyone and everyone.

I honestly can't defend him, nor do I want to. He was a man in his 90s who became out of touch with reality in the last years of his life. His supporters respected him since he was supposedly a great Jewish scholar and adjudicator (I am not versed enough in these matters to be a judge of that). This in no way excuses his words, I'm just trying to shed light on the issue.

Deputy speaker? Who? What is your source?
Gilad Sharon, the adopted son of the late Ariel Sharon, has no political electorate that I know of. Not now, not in 2012 whne the article was written. And Hiroshima is (as usual) hyperbole.

Extremism is as problematic word. It means nothing, other than the complete opposite view to that of the speaker.

But like in the old joke, if everyone on the road are driving in the opposite direction to you, maybe they are not the ones with the problem...

https://www.facebook.com/MFeiglin/posts/695450140534104

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/03/1318834/-Deputy-Knesset-Speaker-Calls-To-Concentrate-Gazans-in-Tent-Encampments

@obiwanobiwan

"Israel being better than Hamas"

That's getting more and more difficult to justify. If attacking and confiscating the places where Palestinians live isn't a "right to exist" matter for them, I don't know what is. I don't think anyone seriously believes that the current activity will put an end to the threats to Israel. So what are they actually doing? I wonder if they're even being honest with themselves.

@Putin33

Hi again, long time no see. Why did you wait so long to refute the charge of being a supporter of Hamas? I think you do deliberately cultivate an extremist appearance by leaving things like that ambiguous, because you enjoy the overheated argument.

I thought this place was trying to keep a lid on all this screaming?

I don't make a habit of hitting people in the back when they are struggling to survive.

I know that might not please those among us whose sole purpose is how their political positions makes them feel, but I don't really care.

I also really don't care what slanders Obi spews my way.

"I thought this place was trying to keep a lid on all this screaming?"

Well, glad we have you back to show us the way of the light.

"I don't make a habit of hitting people in the back when they are struggling to survive. "

I don't know what this means.

"I also really don't care what slanders Obi spews my way. "

Maybe you should. It's simple enough to refute and people believe it if you don't.