Fuck! Putin is a teacher, not Krellin. Brain fart after 3+ hours driving home from the cabin.

And to repost so my *on topic* reply isn't lost on the last page:

Oh don't get me wrong, my comment, while expanding on abge's answer to your question, applies to everyone. What I want to see is a forum that encourages diplomacy. The freedom and openness of the forum is awesome and what makes it unique, but that element shouldn't be pushed so far that we risk losing members to negativity of a small percentage of the forum. So what I'm asking as a member, and what I believe most of you are willing to do out of respect for Kestas if nothing else, is to try and contain the fights to a degree, to make an effort to be more respectful to even the people who you cannot stand.

And please, don't think I'm overemphasizing how much this means to kestas, keeping in mind he made the rules read the very first thing in them for mod responsibilities and the first thing for player responsibilities:

"Mods & admins take a relaxed approach to rule enforcement based on mutual respect for other players."

"Use common sense and respect other players."

Now this goes to abge to make decisions on and enforce, but if everyone makes this effort I highly doubt he'll need to do much forum moderating.

@tendmote - I disagree with your analysis. When he directly insults anyone of Christian faith and tries to directly tie them to vile, repugnant behavior, and says that anyone of Christian faith de -facto supports and promotes that behavior, he is over the line.

According to Putin, if you are a Chrisitian, then you support and defend pedophilia.

So I apply the same logic to Putin. You don't have to like my style - but it is Putin's style. If he wishes an end to my utilization of his stlye of argument and accusation, then he can simply refute his argument, and apologize to those around here that claim to have a Christian faith.

That would be resolve the problem, tendmote, and Putin knows this, and chooses to ignore it so that he can keep his issue in tact...and keep using his bogus tactic in arguments.

Big +1 to jmo. And I think I had a similar discussion with abge and a few other members in PM a while back. We need to stop scaring away our future Webdippers who may well male valuable contributions to the forum or the site.

@Draugnar You mock my point, and you also make it. Because "all teachers are statutory rapists" is obviously false, mentioning someone is a teacher afterward is clearly a joke. However, the nonstop direct accusation is not a joke; it is in fact a lie, and a pretty despicable one at that. We're splitting hairs here I guess, but I still think that false accusations of plausible immoral conduct are out-of-bounds by any reasonable standard.

And if Putin33 is doing the same thing with respect to "Christians... support and defend pedophilia", well, it's because he's an asshole. Responding in kind, in a worse way, makes you the same, and worse.

@Krellin "You don't have to like my style - but it is Putin's style"

Good christ man... look at what you're doing!

^ Retire the smear campaign on the basis of what you just said!

Allow me to put things into perspective:

According to GR, this site has 4500 active users.

Do you know how many forum mods there are? Yeah, one.

Show me another site that functions as well as we do with that sort of ratio.

But, in order for you guys to enjoy the luxuries you have here, you need to pitch in and do your part to keep the community great.

@jmo -- I wish you to examine my post to tendmote -- this is one of those ridiculous on-going issues for which I am taking the brunt of the blame. Fine...whatever, i"m a big boy and I can handle the heat. But if anyone has paid any attention to Putin and I over any length of time, they know the nature of my problem with Putin, and what I consider his intellectually dishonest accusation of others. I have attempted to resolve this issue with him by asking him to refute what *I* consider to be his repugnant claims and accusations.

So if you want respect between forum members, then it is a two way street. There are a few "dignified" fellows around here (to borrow a term someone used earlier) who in fact are just vile fellows at heart, no less than anyone else.

So I have made my offer quite openly here -- as I have to Putin in the past -- that he can resolve at least one issue here and now for the betterment of all.

I'm waiting.

For what it's worth, I think a laissez-faire system of moderation is the best way to go. It's incredibly difficult to discern tone and intent from a post on the Internet, and it's a hassle to have anyone investigate. The benefit of laissez-faire is that everyone else takes care of the problem for you. When krellin or anyone else posts something stupid, they get called out on it. That's what this thread is, and that's what most of the posts in response to krellin I've seen are (granted, I'm pretty new to the forum).

krellin says inflammatory things? So what? It's not like what he says is automatically true. In fact, I expect a higher standard of proof for anything krellin says because he makes such bold claims.

If you're feeling upset by something posted here, you have a number of options. No one is forcing you to read the broken prose of a grammatically challenged troll. There is life outside your apartment! You can also ignore the post or you can call out the poster.

Let's remember that this is a forum on the Internet. We can have great discussions on a wide range of issues and we can have input, constructive or otherwise, from a large cross-section of posters. We can also have vitriolic hate and arguments that devolve into the rantings and ravings of lunatics. What makes this forum appealing is its infinite varieties.

At the end of the day, it's an opt-in system. If you have a problem, deal with it. If you no longer want to opt-in, no one is forcing you to stay.

@Draugnar

"Putin has never backed down on his militant atheist stance that all clergy are pedophiles so why the fuck should krellin stop reminding him?"

This is a completely unfair comparison. Putin may have accused Christian clergy of being pedophiles once, or even a couple of times in a thread where Christianity was being discussed. I haven't read those threads but I'll take your word for it for now. However, he has not been continuously making this accusation. Instead he has dropped the subject as those threads died down.

In contrast, krellin has relentlessly been accusing Putin of rape in about half his posts and in threads where the original topic of Christian clergy isn't even being discussed. It's fine that krellin made that analogy in the discussion where it was relevant. Not so much that he keeps repeating it over and over and over, again and again and again.

So, to answer your question. Why should krellin stop reminding him? Because at this point it is no longer serving any purpose beyond giving krellin his sadistic trolling fix. He already more than made his point about Putin's secundum quid so there is no reason at all for these repetitive accusations in that respect.

@krellin

Your attempts to make Putin responsible for stopping the continuation of your own vile behaviors is rather pathetic. Man up little boy and own what you write. It is not up to Putin to make you stop behaving like an idiot.

Well... I guess Krellin insists on being at least as bad as Putin33, until Putin33 relents and acts better. Good night!

"Putin may have accused Christian clergy of being pedophiles once, or even a couple of times in a thread where Christianity was being discussed. I haven't read those threads but I'll take your word for it for now." Try too many times to count in too many threads and at every opportunity he gets. Putin is getting his comeuppance and I for one encourage Krellin to keep it up. That fuck Putin is a self-righteous pompous ass who thinks he knows how to do everything better than the people doing it out in the world. Did you know there is no such degree as software engineering? He insists this even when ai have provided numerous links to SE programs at major universities. As I said. pompous ass getting his comeuppance.

Nah, I understand krellin, putin is a massive asshole. I remember when i was new to the site and forum, on my second or so post the dick already started with his BS. While he refrains from vulgar language and insults, the insults remain, just cloaked in many layers. As someone mentioned earlier he comes into an argument with his mind set and focused on mocking others. While he may not call anyone a "shit sucker" or say "dance for me monkeys", but he's an ass. Krellin however, although he goes off with the whole dance monkeys thing (lmao) is at least honest, an honest ass if you will.

Better an honest asshole, than a crusty one with pieces of shit stuck in the hair trying to pose as a rose... :-)

oscar -- you are a bully, that much is obvious to me. You bully with a sense of self-righteousness, correct? You are going to call me names and try to shame me in to acting according to YOUR wishes. Correct?







That is my Putin strategy. I will employ Putin's strategy against him until he relents from his vile accusations against others. As we all can see, the only thing that rattles Putin's cage enough to make him think is to employ his own tactics against him.

Oscar, when YOU quite being a self-righteous bully...then come talk to me. Until then, you are just another danc.....er.....*TROLL*.

Thank you all for the input. As always, if you have any concerns, please feel free to contact me.

If everyone could try just a bit harder not to be a dick to each other though, I think we'd make a lot of progress.

Ya'll may feel free to hijack this thread at your will now.

I always thought the dance monkeys were the trolls' feeders aka fish (sea bass and blue gill, some catfish). The trolls bait the hooks hoping to catch dinner and the dance monkeys happily oblige.

I've never once said all clergy were pedophiles. So that's a lie.

I oppose the ethos of Christianity and the politics of the churches. Much like 90% of the people here oppose the ethos of Marxism and the politics of the historical and current socialist states. Or much like many people here (myself included) oppose the ethos of Islam and the politics of many Islamic countries.

To criticize organizations or collectives is not on par with character assassination. There is an issue of whether individuals within collectives or organizations are morally culpable for the sins of the group as a whole, even if personally they might not support those policies. I take the view that too many Christians tolerate hateful and destructive practices, even if they individually might not support them. It is this which Krellin is using to absolve himself of calling me a rapist and a pedophile. The handful of liberal Christian churches doesn't negate the overwhelming number who aren't liberal at all, just like I'm sure the existence of Gorbachov or Dubcek or WEB DuBois or Helen Keller or Nelson Mandela doesn't negate people's views about the USSR, China, the Warsaw Pact, etc.

That's the last thing I'm going to say about this absurd subject.

Putin - quit lying. I gave you a chance to come clean. I guess our dance will continue as before.

@Putin33 Do you believe that support or tolerance for pedophilia is a Christian characteristic?

Here are my more or less randomly collected thoughts on issues in this forum (in case anybody cares, which they may not):

1) I agree with Thucy about krellin's often vile rhetoric, and agree that he should be called on it most of the time.

2) I would be appalled to see krellin banned.

3) The "putin the rapist" stuff, while undoubtedly as controversially put as possible, has always seemed to be obviously a substantive criticism of a rhetorical move that putin does, indeed make very frequently, and putin has, indeed, failed to respond to it. So I except this from point (1) above. (In particular, so far as I have seen, krellin always puts what his reasoning is for this accusation, and it's always manifestly clear that he is not actually claiming that there is evidence that any reasonable person would interpret as suggesting putin is a racist; rather he is suggesting that putin uses evidence and guilt-by-association arguments that no reasonable person would accept).

4) I would also disagree with abge's claim that 90% of krellin's posts are unsubstantive. I think he most often starts by making substantive posts, and even has interesting arguments that merit response, but cloaks them in filthy rhetoric, and then often degenerates to just the filthy rhetoric if somebody responds to the latter and not the former. Once again, there is no reason, in any case, that this should be tolerated by other members of the forum. (Which is not to call for any official action).

5) I think that an "anti-harrassment" rule is completely unenforceable, and will necessarily lead to subjectivity and continual enormous controversy. Far better, I think, to just stick to the rule where personal threats are disallowed, and keep hands-off on the rest. I see no reason this thread should have been flagged, for example, and this rule, if pursued, could easily ruin the forum.

Semck = voice of reason.

@Putin33 Do you believe that support or tolerance for pedophilia is a Christian characteristic?

@Krellin Do you believe that an incorrect belief can be corrected by attacking the believer?

semck - excellent analysis....particularly when you astutely point out my detractors usually fail to reply to anything substantive that I say, choosing instead to attack...probably because they can't refute the point so they choose to discredit the point by discrediting me by pretending to blush and feigning indignation.

Yeah....it devolves from there. Human nature...we are all bad actors at our base level. ALL.

"Do you believe that support or tolerance for pedophilia is a Christian characteristic?"

No.

"3) The "putin the rapist" stuff, while undoubtedly as controversially put as possible, has always seemed to be obviously a substantive criticism of a rhetorical move that putin does, indeed make very frequently, and putin has, indeed, failed to respond to it."

I'll remember this. Calling some a rapist and a pedophile over and over again, in dozens upons dozens of threads, is a legitimate tactic according to the voice of reason that is Semck.

It renders his supposed 'criticism' of Krellin in point #4 disingenuous garbage. It's really not the Krellins of the forum that are the problem, it's the wink-wink, nod-nod people like Semck who are the problem.

tendy - sometimes a bully (Putin for examle) only respnds to like behavior. Begging the bully to use reason only reinforces the idea he has power - in fact demonstrates his power.


As for incorrect belief corrected by attacking the believer? Sure....it can haopen - you never know to what someone will respond.