@Yonni. I agree. Public school should be able to offer adequate schooling to everyone. I don't think anyone's looking to privatize all education, but public schools will never be able to offer the kinds of things a wealthy, selective, and progressive private school can.

But going to University is a privilege, not a right. Public school being available to one and all stops after grade school. Want to go to college and can't afford the local community college on loans, grants, or scholarships? You didn't work hard enough in grade school.

Geo, are you suggesting anything different than the status quo?

I guess, looking backing I was commenting to Gunfighter's comment:
"We need to privatize primary, secondary, and post-secondary education. Education is too important to leave to clumsy union-backed government bureaucracy."

We may actually be arguing for the same (or at least very similar) thing.

While I'm voting for leaders I vote Nigel Farage for Prime Minster

You're right, I'm not suggesting much. If anything I'm saying "sure, go ahead and try to fix public schools, I doubt the US even knows where to begin and will in all likelihood not make anything better, but as long as you don't touch private schools in the process, I won't disagree with the attempt."

Alright, fair enough then.

[\Hijacking thread]

I'd vote Obama. Let him have another go at it.

@Geof - I agree re: the voluntary voucher thing. I think I said as much.

@Yonni - My dad came from the wrong side of the tracks in TN. He went into the Navy where they discovered that he had an intellect and he became a guided missile tech. On getting out, he went to work at GE Jet Engines as a data analyst. From there, he started designing equipment that would help gather the data he was analyzing, studied engineering books on his own, and moved up. Now maybe the 60s (he graduated HS in 61 so his navy ed was 61-67 and his self-ed was from 67 on) were different than today.

When I was growing up, we lived in a really cheap farm house in the country (an area that is now suburbia) because my parents could afford it, and I went to public school. My college education was paid for with student loans and my books were paid for with money I earned working while I was in school.

When my dad finally retired four years ago he was making alomst as much as I am today. Almost. But the key is, I'm 45 and still havde 20 years till I retire. When my dad's father passed away he never made as much as my dad even when he had his own locksmith business later in life. And, yes, that includes adjusting for inflation.

Schools are only part of the equation. My dad discovered the value of an education in the navy. But he made certain to raise me with a focus on getting ahead in life and education myself. He and my mom made sacrifices for my brother and I (like moving from a nice maybe 20 year old house at the time in a weaker school district to a much older house for the same money in a better school district because they wanted us to do well in school) so we could get a quality education even once they had moved firmly into the middle class when I was a kid and they both spent time with us on our lessons and encouraged us to learn more on our own beyond what the teachers prepared for us.

So don't discount the power of a concerned parent who wants their kid to do even better than they did in life.

Drag, that's a fantastic story. If only all parents were as involved. I am certainly not trying to paint the picture where I think schools are the entire equation so I hope you don't think that's what I'm suggesting. I just want all parents to have the opportunity to send their children to a decent school, even if they've fallen upon hard times.

[but really, this time I'm done hijacking...]

@Draug, yes I was agreeing with you and now you've agreed with my agreeing. =)

Awesome tale, thanks for sharing. You're dad sounds like an admirable guy and I'm happy his hard work and good parenting is paying off for generations.

I would never discount the power of a concerned parent BUT (there's always one with me) private school still offers an opportunity and environment unmatched in any other aspect of life. Top notch education is the single most important thing a parent can make available to their child. And let me be clear, the money gets you there, but the opportunities afforded by private schools are not because YOU have money, its because the school has your money.

There's not a single person in public school right now that wouldn't be better off in the types of private schools I'm talking about.

@Yonni, its not hijacking. Threads evolve into other topics. This one has taken no less than 5 of those turns. The title may not have changed, but the purpose certainly has.

Fair enough, I've just been chewed (zing, pun intended!) out before for it so I figured I'd try adhere to forum etiquette.

Just give parents vouchers to go to the school of their choice.
You will find out in one to two years which schools are bad and good as parents abandon poor schools.
No one is more qualified to make the judgment than parents not politicians, not do-gooders, not teachers.

Forum etiquette. Yonni the Comedian.

I'm voting for Palin just out of curiosity, and also for the jokes on The Daily Show and Colbert Report. :)

I prefer the public school system over the private. As long as their are no unions for the teachers...

What?! No teacher unions? Teachers ought to be making 100k a year and worshiped as highly as the clergy. I am 100% in favour of stronger more aggressive teacher unions.

My God a nationwide teacher strike would be something glorious to behold. And something radical like that is probably the only hope for curing the US education system.

You laugh but this is one of the most civil internet forum I've ever seen.

"worshipped as highly as clergy"
I agree with the sentiment but not the analogy.

I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to... worship... clergymen. Lol.

Revered then.
Wherever a teacher goes, they should be thanked, applauded, saluted. They should get free coffee, free train rides, etc.

You know how people look up to a fireman? Teachers should outshine that by a million.

Nay - if the clergy asks for or receives "worship" that usually results in an embarrassing situation of cover-up, forgiving the victim for their sin, and the clergy getting quietly moved to a new post in a new town.

Paultard ==>

Well that depends on the religion. Catholic clergy get relocated. Many others get the boot in disgrace.

I used the word figuratively damn it.
And have since redacted it for the word revered instead.

@Eden, I've never actually seen someone self-identify as a "Paultard". Funny.

My wholly impractical choice: Bernie Sanders, distinguished senator from Vermont. Seems he's always on the correct side of every issue... one of the few opponents of the Iraq war from the start (a position he shared with Ron Paul), wants to audit the Federal Reserve, renegotiate NAFTA, supports women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, single payer health care, etc.

President Eden for President.

Ron Paul

But Kingdroid, he's already a President. Why give him two Presidencies? He might run into a conflict of interests

@ goldfinger

Isn't the Enclave the American continuity of government? If so, wouldn't President Eden already be president?
_______________________

Of course, I would be in favor of private education with some sort of voucher system. Instead of paying higher taxes, the government would give the money that would have been spent on public education back to the people in the form of vouchers. The quality of education would improve for everyone. We just need to unleash the power of the free market.

We are falling behind Europe and Asia because our communist-style public schools are a complete failure for a variety of reasons. Our private, charter, and Catholic schools consistently perform better than public schools and are often on par with other countries.

Public education does not "level the playing field". It lowers the playing field.