@Chrispminis, I like the Norse story... good show. But I think we'd have to make an animated movie of it - with Angelina Jolie in spandex, of course. I think Ms. Jolie would be critical to the modernization of it. So that movie goers would "understand" it better. :-) The painting idea is now stuck in my head... I picture a sad looking Jesus complete with bloody crown of thorns... Damn - I'd be hated. Hey... I could like make Jesus look like a junkie... with track marks on his arms... Lucifer passed out in the corner like the aftermath of a massive party. A stack of "Dear God" letters on the nearby table - barely visible writing of people angry with God or saying they don't believe he exists. A lightning bolt shaped telephone with cobwebs on it. A group of dogs playing poker in the other corner... just kidding. (actually that last cracks me up... it might have to be in there) Shit. Now I'm going to have to do this.

"How does it feel that all your 'takes' are wrong because they are based on a false premise? "
@Timur, and what would that be?

That is really good, Dexter. Go make it. I'll attend, for one.

@dexter: Premise: that god exists as an entity.

@Chrispminis, I actually like the original simpler vision... a regal but sad Jesus (white robes, crown of thorns), gun, splatter/universe. I might have to give you a dedication or shared credit or something (a percentage :-).

"that god exists as an entity"
@Timur, for sure. That premise leads to all kinds of wrong conclusions.

Anybody ever think about the fact that there are so many Christian gods? Catholic (get down on your knees, son) and Protestant (dinnae do that, laddie).

Sorry. I shouldn't have joined this discussion. It makes me a little upset to see so many obviously intelligent people clinging to . . . whatever they are clinging to. A raft? London -> English Channel by raft.

There are not different Gods just different interpretations. You should also include the Jewish and the Islamic version of the same God.

You can't expect everyone to be right, Timur. I don't see why the existent of both Catholicism and Protestant forms of Christianity would disturb anyone any more than the fact that some people believe in Creationism while I believe in Evolution makes me worry about the validity of my beliefs.

Or maybe just a painting of Jesus in orbit looking at like a hurricane, he has a pained expression and a gun to his head.

That would be good.

Personally I think Jesus should go out more badass-ly. Surrounded by Satan and all the demons of hell, smiling, blood streaming down from his crown of thorns, his once-white robes now tattered with bullet holes (Think Vash the Stampede), the image shows the "Oh Crap" moment of the legions of hell when they realize that Jesus has concealed some sort of explosive, and he's taking them with him. That's just me.

Jesus as a suicide bomber? Really?

@Stukus: Yes, obviously evolutionism is probably right, while creationism doesn't make sense.
I actually don't give a shit about Christianity. I just don't like them bastards telling us they have the lowdown on . . . stuff.

@Thucydides, or how about God stirring a hurricane with his finger and looking either angry or amused? ...or if I could pull off angry *and* amused that might work... of course it might make him look like Charlie Manson. I am *so* going to hell.

Jesus the suicide crosser

Don't come near me or I'm going to crucify myself!

Oh shit, I did it. Now everyone's going to bow down and worship me. Stupid bastards.

"You can't expect everyone to be right, Timur. I don't see why the existent of both Catholicism and Protestant forms of Christianity would disturb anyone any more than the fact that some people believe in Creationism while I believe in Evolution makes me worry about the validity of my beliefs."

Really? You're comparing the authority of evolution over creationism to religious authority of one branch of Christianity over another?

dexter, haha, it's up to you. Are you actually any good at painting or perhaps graphic art? If you do this, it'd be nice if you sent me a poster version for my room, but no other compensation required. The idea was yours, the rest is just details.

@Chrisp, I'm just saying that different viewpoints don't rule out one of them being right. I wanted to use an example he would agree with.

@Chrispminis, I'm not good at painting... so I may have to commission it :-). My daughter is an artist... hmm... Or I might go with the story. We'll see. Should I do this, I promise I'll email you the results.

@Stukus, but I do think he has a point. It's like pointing out why one believes in leprechauns but not unicorns or griffons and a leprechaun believer pointing out that just because creationism exists it doesn't make them doubt evolution. Are the two in any way equal in footing when it comes to evidence? I don't think you'd argue that there is a way to investigate whether or not Catholics have a more accurate view of God than Protestants, or whether you could demonstrate that leprechauns are more likely to exist than unicorns.

Of course leprechauns and unicorns exist. It's just that some people are unable to see/contact them. Maybe because they're so tied into their own little worlds.

@dexter: Could we post graphics on this site? I'd like to see your daughter's stuff.

@Timur, she's still pretty young (12)... but has been saying for years how she wants to be an artist as an adult... and she's good for her age. She's quite serious about her dream (and draws at every chance) - so I think she'll do it. ...it might be a few years before I can hire her for my idea. :-) I'm thinking a high school art project. That won't upset anyone at the PTA, will it?

This is the best Jesus painting: http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz333/Extemporanus/One_Nation_Under_Cthulhu.jpg

Source: http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=353

Response posted under separate thread: "God and Sin".

It always amazes me that people in this day and age take the idea of any god as more than just a metaphor. I always liked to think that the ancients didn't really believe that a mighty man lived atop of a mountain but since they have similar beliefs today I must conclude that yes, some people really did believe in that magnificent, mountain man.

P.S. Making it a woman makes no difference to me.

"I believe in nothing, and you're convinced of a hex. That's the difference between us." Quoted from the Gospel of Embryonic. The Flaming Lips. 2009

So I had a debate type thing with a traveling evangelist.

I asked him the question I asked here: What if God is lying?

I have come away with this knowledge:

You don't answer that kind of question directly unless you're a non-believer.

He basically said that it was possible but dumb to believe because it was cynical.

I said that just because it's cynical doesn't mean it has any higher chance of being true than other options.

He didn't understand my point, or chose to ignore it, and replied by saying that he knows God's not a liar because we are in God's image and we have an innate moral sense.

A lot of assumptions in that last sentence, AND he didn't even answer my point, which would be that God created us to BELIEVE we were in his image and that God does not lie.


Oh well. I give up. I have decided, henceforth, that discussing those things with irreconcilably people only gives them the attention they want lol.