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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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brainbomb (290 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
I am still upset at the 1998 Academy Awards
How did Shakespeare in Love win best picture instead of Saving Private Ryan.
29 replies
Open
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
04 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
Official (Council Approved) Mafia XXX Sign Up Thread
See below for details.
Page 5 of 11
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ghug (5068 D(B))
10 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
Y'all is whack.

And by whack I mean in possession of poor taste in mafia roles.
dargorygel (2596 DMod(G))
10 Jul 17 UTC
hmmm... a cereal killer.... "I hate Lucky Charms!" "Death to Kellogg!!" I like the concept...
Mercy (2124 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
We only have 17 players signed up right now though.

##CALL GM: How many players are needed for the SK to be added?
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
SK is in regardless, if you check the doc the only thing that can change are number of VTs and mafia.

On another note, I love third parties and think they make a really good addition to mafia games, SK included. As such, I'm going to address Mercy's concerns directly and then go on about my own personal view on the matter:

"If there is an SK in the game, Town has too little influence on which people die. In a day-nightcycle, only one in three deaths will be caused by Town voting, which I find too few."
I don't see why this is an issue, it isn't just a new role, it is a new faction. It is expected that the influence of the other two will go down as a result as the SK is opposed to both of them. Complaining about this is essentially complaining that changing a game from 2 player to 3 players is bad because it decreases the influence of the other two players.

" Moreover, I think that the SK has too much influence. If he never targets Mafia, it becomes almost impossible for Town to win, and if the kills Mafia, Town can win without them having actually correctly spotted Mafia. This takes away many of the fun strategic aspects of the game."

I think this is just false as you look at it as a binary, and that the SK is likely to go for one of the two options, yet this is clearly unlikely given that the SK wants to win themself. If they focus too much on avoiding and killing the village the mafia will take them out and if they hurt the mafia too much they will likely be found out by the village. The fact they have to balance the two makes me believe that not only does it not take away from the strategy, but adds to it. Not to mention this argument can be made if you swap out SK for Village or Mafia. As if any decides to just focus on one of the other factions without enough effort on the other, they likely lose.

"The best strategy for each individual player becomes to play in such a way to not get nighkilled, while this game should be about other things."

I don't see a warrant for why this is more true than a regular game. Townies still want to protect their PRs and as such would rather take the hit than them, and nothing changes for the mafia aside from now they can die at night too, enhancing their need to avoid detection. I am also unsure what these other things are, as survival has always been a major component of mafia and this also increases the likelihood of Night Kill analysis, which is an often underused and underrated aspect of the game given one of the biggest decisions is who the mafia decide to kill each night.

"Also, I din't think it is fun to hunt for the SK at all, or to play SK. Mafia can strategize with each other, the SK can't. Town can catch Mafia by discovering the way they work together, but the SK can't be caught in such a way."

This is precisely why I find those things more fun. When hunting for the mafia you are looking at the amalgamation of ideas and group interactions, with the SK you are looking for an individual and trying to figure out their motivations. You literally have to widen what you are looking for when trying to catch the SK, how is that not fun. As for playing as an SK, it should be great, after all, unlike mafia or village, you can not be saved by a really good palyer or dragged down by a really bad one in your faction. It is you vs everyone, every decision you make is critical, and most importantly, it is yours. You and you alone are responsible for how close you get to your win condition, not anyone else. It provides a way for the individual to triumph in a way that normal mafia doesn't.

"All in all, I think the addition of the SK makes for a dumber game."

I don't see how a role that requires you to prioritize more than one strategy, broaden your mind when it comes to hunting scum and encourages increased analysis of what happened each night makes the game dumber. Rather I think it encourages players to play smarter and be smarter. It may make the game more complicated but that's kind of the opposite of dumbing it down, no?

Overall, what I like about the SK is how adaptable it makes the players have to be SK included. Every decision becomes big, even down to whether or not to kill to fool the mafia or town, or figuring out who performed what kill. You also have to balance being good enough at scum hunting to triumph over the mafia without being so good that you get made, along with avoiding the town noticing something off about your game. It does what any good variation or idea does, it takes something that exists (like standard chess) and add a new element that causes people to rethink the game, change how they look at something and hopefully have fun along the way (like bughouse or 3 player chess).
Mercy (2124 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
''I don't see why this is an issue, it isn't just a new role, it is a new faction. It is expected that the influence of the other two will go down as a result as the SK is opposed to both of them. Complaining about this is essentially complaining that changing a game from 2 player to 3 players is bad because it decreases the influence of the other two players.''
''I think this is just false as you look at it as a binary, and that the SK is likely to go for one of the two options, yet this is clearly unlikely given that the SK wants to win themself. If they focus too much on avoiding and killing the village the mafia will take them out and if they hurt the mafia too much they will likely be found out by the village. The fact they have to balance the two makes me believe that not only does it not take away from the strategy, but adds to it. Not to mention this argument can be made if you swap out SK for Village or Mafia. As if any decides to just focus on one of the other factions without enough effort on the other, they likely lose.''

My complaint is that Town and Mafia have way less influence on whether they win or not. For example, Town can be really good at Mafia hunting, but when the SK kills a Town every night, then for every Mafia kill there will be at least two Town kills - which can make it very hard for Town. You say that the SK will balance Town and Mafia, but he doesn't know who is Town and who is Mafia, and even if he knows, that just means that Town and Mafia will be punished by the SK for good play. Who wins becomes less dependent on skill and more dependent on luck/who gets targeted.
Additionally, I think it is less fun to play as Town when you can only influence one in three deaths.

''I don't see a warrant for why this is more true than a regular game. Townies still want to protect their PRs and as such would rather take the hit than them, and nothing changes for the mafia aside from now they can die at night too, enhancing their need to avoid detection. I am also unsure what these other things are, as survival has always been a major component of mafia and this also increases the likelihood of Night Kill analysis, which is an often underused and underrated aspect of the game given one of the biggest decisions is who the mafia decide to kill each night.''

The component of survival will change, and not for the best. In normal Mafia, Town can expect that most nights a night kill will occur. As a member of Town, it can be a good strategy to behave in a way that enlarges the likelihood of you getting nightkilled, especially if you have no special role. Namely, if Mafia wouldn't kill you, they would likely kill another Town member. If you say smart things, Mafia is more likely to kill you, but that's worth it. But if there are three parties, this changes. If the SK doesn't kill you, he may kill a Mafia member instead. As a consequence, the strategy of saying smart things becomes less advantageous, because it increases the chance of you getting killed and thus decreases the chance of a member of another team being killed.
Seichuto (308 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
1. TrPerado
2. Ezio
3. peterlund
4. Jamiet99uk
5. ghug
6. ND
7. Spiritoftheradio
8. Mercy
9. Brainbomb
10. guak
11. Fluminator
12. uclabb
13. Snowy
14. StaccatoCat
15. Oztra
16. Seichuto
17.
18.
19.
20. CAPT Brad
21. Chaqa

Subs:
1. Tom Bomb (available to sub after 7/21)
2. Balduran
3.
4.

Some game obviously has to be the first...
snowy801 (591 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
I want Jeff Kuta back
brainbomb (290 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
SK is universally accepted on every mafia site : EM, TOS, MU, MS, DM.

Fundamentally the sk is not any different than a night vig who is rolling dice and smokin crack on who to kill. Maybe some of the foloowing caveats could make sk more interesting.

-Let sk fire by day or by night but only 3 shots per game.
-have a role that if sk shoots - the sk is revealed (like an oracle)
-have a reviver or universal backup that can replace a dead PR
Fluminator (1500 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
I agree with some of your points vash. I quite enjoy third parties.
But why the SK out of all the options.
The SK encourages people to not stand out because they'll get mowed over. It's almost impossible to strategize around and quite often ensures lurkers make it to the end. SK almost never wins and yet has way too much power. The SK usually targets the most engaged players because it's usually strategically optimal for him.

Third parties like arsonist, werewolf, or ghost are much better.

Arsonist is better because unless they win, they don't greatly affect or break or ruin the core game. They only augment it. Arsonists are more likely to target unassuming and uncontroversial players too.

Werewolfs are just a good role in general if you add a couple more town. The interactions between third party and both sides don't really distract from the core game. They just add another element.

Not like SK who just mowes people down until he inevitably loses.
brainbomb (290 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
Has an SK ever won before?
Fluminator (1500 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
No, but they usually win it for one of the other sides ;)
Fluminator (1500 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
All complaining aside, even if there is a SK I greatly look forward to this game and thanks to Vash and Meme for running this.
snowy801 (591 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
Oh yeah I'm sure it'll be fun
It would just be more fun with one minor change
I guess we can just lynch him day 1. I got your back, regardless of alignment
ghug (5068 D(B))
11 Jul 17 UTC
So, SK should just claim day one.
brainbomb (290 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
Actually that would be interesting.
brainbomb (290 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
Suppose you as sk claim. Vow to help town. And survive to 3 way. Despite claiming id assume youd be brave enough in the eyes of that townie if there was 1 scum alive too. Town would make you kingmaker
ghug (5068 D(B))
11 Jul 17 UTC
No, town kills you before the end. This happened in M3.5 (though only cause we caught him).
brainbomb (290 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
Was that when chaqa claimed arsonist and agreed to help town
ghug (5068 D(B))
11 Jul 17 UTC
No, it was Eden claiming SK.
dargorygel (2596 DMod(G))
12 Jul 17 UTC
So what if someone CC's SK?
snowy801 (591 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
I should do that
peterlund (1310 D(G))
12 Jul 17 UTC
Welcome seichuto! Always nice to get some fresh blood into the mafia games. :)
Yo guys, if you want a different third party, take it up with meme, but there will be a third party.
snowy801 (591 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
I bet the game's not filling up because nobody wants to play with a SK
Durga (3609 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
Summer is busy, I'd love to play.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Jul 17 UTC
If you're that desperate for players then I'll play, but I'm quite busy as well and will probably contribute to about the same degree that Vash did in M29.
bozotheclown (2498 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
1. TrPerado
2. Ezio
3. peterlund
4. Jamiet99uk
5. ghug
6. ND
7. Spiritoftheradio
8. Mercy
9. Brainbomb
10. guak
11. Fluminator
12. uclabb
13. Snowy
14. StaccatoCat
15. Oztra
16. Seichuto
17. bozotheclown
18.
19.
20. CAPT Brad
21. Chaqa

Subs:
1. Tom Bomb (available to sub after 7/21)
2. Balduran
3.
4.
Durga (3609 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
How am I not playing in this game I'm so angry
brainbomb (290 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
You should. Look on bright side. Yer inactivity will be excused regardless of align
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
12 Jul 17 UTC
Why don't people fill in the sign up list with the people that signed up?

1. TrPrado
2. Ezio
3. peterlund
4. Jamiet99uk
5. ghug
6. ND
7. Spiritoftheradio
8. Mercy
9. Brainbomb
10. guak
11. Fluminator
12. uclabb
13. Snowy
14. StaccatoCat
15. Oztra
16. Seichuto
17. bozotheclown
18. DemonOverlord
19. bo
20. CAPT Brad
21. Chaqa

Subs:
1. Tom Bomb (available to sub after 7/21)
2. Balduran
3.
4.

Page 5 of 11
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327 replies
BrownPaperTiger (508 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
(+3)
Ready up already...
Why is there always that someone in a GB game that will not ready up?
I get that sometimes folks are travelling or away from connections, but seriously.... why is it _you_....Every Damned Phase?
Am I missing something, or is it just poor form?
17 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
17 Jul 17 UTC
Do Republicans think that reason is good or bad?
There seems to be debate on the right about whether reason is to be trusted or not. (The left is uniformly suspicious of spurrious argument). I'm seeing Republican lawmakers being skeptical about using reason but rightwing media seems fine with it
5 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
07 Jul 17 UTC
Lusthog Gunboat
Anyone interested in a few games? 50ish points, 36hr, all the other standard gunboat options. Open to anyone who doesnt have a lot of CDs and resigns.

Lusthog is a gunboat varient where you can't vote to draw until the board stalemates.
50 replies
Open
Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
11 Jul 17 UTC
(+12)
July GR Published
https://sites.google.com/site/phpdiplomacytournaments/theghost-ratingslist
16 replies
Open
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
16 Jul 17 UTC
Help.
How do you deal with unprovoked verbal violence in a game. I know it isn't against a site rules. But if I mute a player will it mute them in a game thread?
17 replies
Open
ubercacher16 (283 D)
17 Jul 17 UTC
Join?
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=202092

Live, bet 5.
0 replies
Open
yavuzovic (668 D)
15 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
Homelands
If i lose my home SCs, and i take different SC's. Can i build?
20 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
16 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
Mods
Please check your email. Thanks.
2 replies
Open
lazynomad (227 D)
15 Jul 17 UTC
Wings: Air Force rules variant for Diplomacy
This diplomacy variant introduces rules for using air force units (wings).
18 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
15 Jul 17 UTC
Strategy games on regular laptops
I'm laptop shopping and I'm hearing that the new- mid range laptops can't play games, even strategy games, is this true?
11 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
16 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
DNC RIGGED LOSERS FINALS
SHOULDA BEEN HBOX
1 reply
Open
faded box (100 D)
15 Jul 17 UTC
Rocket League
Anyone else addicted to this game?
0 replies
Open
faded box (100 D)
15 Jul 17 UTC
Live
Live anyone?
1 reply
Open
TiconderogaHB (100 D)
15 Jul 17 UTC
Replacement Persia needed
Public Press Only Ancient Mediteranean
gameID=201578
1 reply
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
Webdip Conservatives have convinced me my world view is flawed.
I have decided to become a Republican and a Libertarian because the arguments made on this forum have convinced me the Democrat party is no better than the pro-slavery radicals of the 1860's. I have learned that tax cuts for the wealthy, deportations, and putting business and moneymaking ahead of health of US citizenry is paramount
235 replies
Open
umbletheheep (1645 D)
15 Jul 17 UTC
New Classic Game Starting in 20min.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=201859
0 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Jul 17 UTC
Donald Trump Jr's emails released.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/document-Donaldtrumpjr.html?_r=0
38 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
13 Jul 17 UTC
Texas law allows open carry of Swords
Starting in September, finally - true American potential is acheived. We can now carry swords into work/battle/recess/village inn ect. https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/11/texas-law-will-allow-open-carry-knives-swords.amp.html
6 replies
Open
swordsman3003 (14048 D(G))
10 Jul 17 UTC
Top gunboaters game
Could we get enough interest to get a game going? I want only to invite players ranked in the top 50 (ghostratings or points).
13 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (154 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
Users: Logged on:75 - Playing:1712 - Registered:87165
Are there really 87165 registere players ..and 77000 odd games completed. That leave 1712 playing currently in so Im no accountant but those numbers seem a bit out of whack..

18 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D(S))
12 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
It is always darkest before the dawn
Given the Don Jr. revelations, this might seem like a bleak time for the Republicans, but if they can wait out the media coverage without breaking rank they will be have saved Trump. There is no larger shoe yet to drop and it will be morning in America again.
55 replies
Open
Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
13 Jul 17 UTC
Replacement Russia Needed
1 reply
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
13 Jul 17 UTC
China has a TELEPORTER
This is fascinating news:

http://time.com/4854718/quantum-entanglement-teleport-space/
3 replies
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
05 Jul 17 UTC
Why shouldnt North Dakota have a nuclear weapons programme?
The US has nuclear weapons. We got silos and shit all over Montana/ND and SD. Who are we to say that North Dakota is not entitled to secede and have their own nuclear arsenal?
20 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
Digital forums and free speech
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40577858

i think we all understand the implications of this: twitter is a digital forum open to the public, but it's also privately operated and it has set rules. the decision on this case is going to have sweeping effects on the internet and internal law alike
4 replies
Open
LeonWalras (865 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
Webdip Conservatives have convinced me my world is flawed.
I had always suspected it might be.
1 reply
Open
michael_b (192 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
Board Pieces World Diplomacy 2017
See Reply
7 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
IndyCar and Nascar vs F1 and Touring Car
Why are American motor racing events based on going around and around and around an oval circuit with no difficult turns or chicanes or anything? So boring.
5 replies
Open
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