No.

rollerfiend - Iappreciate your words, but you should probably stick to the topic of forum moderation.

Same with you, Puttybaby.

@tend

I would, but only because I'm a very laissez-faire type of guy and don't want to spend my life listening to he-said-she-said debates.

@Putin

If something pops up, please feel free to email me. As I said, I can't see everything, but I do try to maintain some level of consistency.

@krellin

The difference is that some people, such as Putin, annoy others as a byproduct of the content of their posts. With you, annoyance *is* the content of the post. 90%+ of your posts are completely devoid of any discernible content.

Furthermore, while Putin and Thucy may get a bit hot an bothered, their OPs are always very respectable. You come out of the gate like a bat out of hell. Quite frankly, it makes the site look bad with a bunch of posts on the front page to the effect of:

"Heey assclwond

Goolboal warming? hugh? UFCUKING RETARDS? GI bet you'd **VOLEVE* to suck off AL Gores' DCIK!

DANCE moNKESY DANCE!1!1"

Do you see the difference?

I see the difference...if you say ridiculous things in a dignified manner, and if you say insulting things in a dignified manner that that's OK.

If you say ridiculous things in a ridiculous manner, to reflect their ridiculousness, that's bad.

And while you think that Putin and Thucy make "respectable" OP's, I would disagree completely, and every one of their threads eventually leads to them belittling people and accusing them of all sorts of vile moral stances, etc.

So...no...I really don't see the difference in the long run, abge, other than one is just more obvious and, frankly, honest in it's intent.

Let's please put aside this charade that Thucy and Putin treat anyone in a dignified manner. As I said, calling me a vulgar name or castigating my character "with dignity" and a straight face is just as obnoxious as doing it with a honest vulgarity.

Please don't pretend that either one of them ever puts up one of their "cerebral" threads with anything but the intent of finding people with whom they violently disagree, and then calling them out on it.

I think you are being dishonest....just my opinion, and not meant as an insult.

<And abge - for the record - I do respect you. You'll note I'm behaving for you for the time being ;) >

@krellin On the topic of forum moderation, would you, in the absence of a rule, personally agree to stop making false allegations of despicable (or personal, but false) conduct of other people on the forum? We actually probably don't need a rule if you'll cut that shit out, as you're the only one doing that.

I can see abgemacht's point about laissez-faire, I don't think the insults and satire would be an issue, so long as the actual smear campaign stopped.

^Agree with abge on this. Krellin gets wayyy to lost in the "dance monkeys" shenanigans.

@abge - A direct answer... Hate speech advocating violence for differences, speech threatening a fellow webdipper or his family (unless an obvious pun/mem/joke) and the like should be silencable - but there should be a brief investigation in case the mods don't recognize the meme or see the pun/joke (I believe I used one a while back that got Lenin trouble when it was referencing the lyrics of a song by an artist mentioned a few posts previous, but just got a warning so let it go - unusual for me). Posting the same thing (I.e. Krellin, go away...) in thread after thread (cyber harassment) especially when the poster hadn't posted in that thread previously (cyber stalking) and the oft used posting of new thread after new thread spoofing another thread (one spoof is enough thank you) should be silencable as well. But pretty much everything else should be allowed. Of course, you really should let Kestas decide. It is his site, even if we donate to it. We donate to keep it going, but we have Kestas to thank for it's existence and we should go by his decisions.

@Thucy - You say cop-out. I say tolerance of free speech. Live with it. I won't change my stance. I get krellin and Kestas says this is a free speech zone. Don't like it, go the fuck somewhere else where the thought police agree with you.

"I see the difference...if you say ridiculous things in a dignified manner, and if you say insulting things in a dignified manner that that's OK."

Yes. And you're welcome to respond back with why they're ridiculous.

"If you say ridiculous things in a ridiculous manner, to reflect their ridiculousness, that's bad."

It's fine, but not as a primary means of communication, which it has become for you.

"I think you are being dishonest....just my opinion, and not meant as an insult."

I'm not being dishonest; I'm being realistic. To moderate with the nuance you're suggesting is simply unsustainable. Instead, I'm trying to keep things manageable. Go at it all you want, but don't scare away everyone who just wants to play diplomacy. That's all I really care about.

@Draugnar, Kestas and I trust abge's judgment when it comes to the forum. His multiple successful years of forum moderating before his retirement...and getting dragged out of retirement have more then earned him that.

@abge - "Furthermore, while Putin and Thucy may get a bit hot an bothered, their OPs are always very respectable"

Unless it is a Putin post lambasting conservative views or the USA. Sorry, but that mother fucker wouldn't know respect from his ass if he was given a map to both.

Personally, I don't have much of a problem with any individual example of krellin's vile rants. It's the continuous and repetitive dissemination of such rants that makes them poisonous. If krellin would step over the line once in a while I wouldn't mind at all. I would in fact consider it all in good fun. However, he steps over the line on a daily basis and with the majority of his contributions, while seldomly adding anything useful and apparently with the sole intent to insult others for his own amusement. This I'd say is what makes his presence harmful to the community.

Krellin's incorrect assertions that Thucy and Putin do the exact same thing and that moderation equates to politically motivated censorship are rather ridiculous attempts to rationalize his own misconduct, divert attention away from himself and sabotage those that try to hold him accountable.

@Draugnar The main problem here is, the false allegations that Krellin makes with respect to people's personal behavior is definitely over any reasonable line. The "dance monkeys" stuff... yeah, I'd agree with your free speech point there. But false accusation of immorality acts, or the details of someone's personal business, are a pretty substantive attack, and are out-of-bounds.

Krellin should simply agree to retire the smear campaign, and carry on otherwise.

@tendmote -- when Putin stops making false allegations about individuals based upon the actions of others, I will do the same.

anyone that has been around here knows what Putin must do for me to stop making the accusation I do about him. I *am applying his logic* to him...and now he doesn't like it.

That all of you pretend that this little game isn't going on is ridiculous.

On other fronts, when Thucy stops making moral declarations about individuals with his broad brush, then I will do the same to him. His selective reading of everything, and subsequent judgements, are tiresome, and I treat him with the same broad, judgemental brush that he treats others.

So tendy -- sure, I'll quit playing the game when all the crying victims stop playing the same game. This ridiculous notion that I'm the only one misbehaving is laughable.

As for dance monkeys...<sigh...> the organ grinder turns the handle and the music starts to play. the dance monkey dances, and the grinder gets paid. it's pavlovian in the extreme, and when I call you a dance monkey, it is because your behavior is **utterly** predicatable...and I'm giving you the courtesy of telling you that obvious trolls are obvious, and you are a troll.

Anyone else need anything interpreted?

So let's see....if I start calling you "troll" and use the approve internet lingo, instead of calling you "dance monkeys" I guess that will be OK? You just object to my use of alternative terminology? Is that it? I guess I'm just more creative than the collective lot and grew bored with the age-old troll phrase...

@Draug

"but there should be a brief investigation in case the mods don't recognize the meme or see the pun/joke "

Serious question: Are you going to pay me to do this? I think you guys don't understand how much time these things take.

@Krellin Did Putin33 make a false accusation against a hypothetical individual or an actual individual?

@tendmote - again, Putin, Thucy, others ALL MAKE FALSE MORAL ACCUSATION ON A CONSTANT BASIS.

Get that through your head. If they want to stand in judgement of others, then they should be big boys and girls and be prepared for judgment in return.

@jmo - I agree 1000% (yes one thousand). I didn't know Kestas had given him more leeway to mold the forum. I say go for it, abge. I trust you completely to keep the spirit.

As far as krellin specifically, he is making a point out of Putin's accusations that all religious clergy or child abusers (guilt by association) because a visible minority of catholic priests are. A visible minority of teachers are guilty of statutory rape and Putin is a teacher. Putin has never backed down on his militant atheist stance that all clergy are pedophiles so why the fuck should krellin stop reminding him?

tendmote - Putin stands in judgement of individuals and groups on a *constant* basis. Please do not pretend it is otherwise - you are being disingenuous and ridiculous by feigning ignorance.

Putin knows *exactly* what I am talking about, and I have asked him time and time and time again to address his logical falacy in regards to his accusations. He refuses. So I started to apply his own logic to him...he is guilty by association, just as he judges others.

He can simply retract his argumentative logic and openly declare that his frequent broad-based accusation were wrong, apologize to those he has offended, and I will retract mine.

While I'm pro free speech and all, lets all be reminded that this is a private server, and free speech here is a privilege. The mods are actually quite cool considering they're leaving this topic up to debate where other sites would not.
That being said, the best way to solve this would simply be trying to have more self control. While personally i would not mute anyone, if certain people don't want to see a users post, then perhaps mute that user. If someone is ranting a bit to much, perhaps a note from another member in the form of a pm, such as "calm down".
I don't think there's an easy fix to this though.

Maybe if people don't take troll posts so seriously, it would be a lot better.

@Krellin, to add onto what abge said. Even if they are being falsely respectful and the threads turn into slug fests as long as the OP itself is written in a way that allows the average member who is just interested in diplomacy to view the forum without having to see cussing/vulgar OP's then we don't mind. Everyone knows what they will find inside, but this way we aren't as badly scaring the members who just like the site for diplomacy...yes we have a few. Like abge said, our main concern is maintaining an awesome place to play an awesome game. Having a forum where everyone can cut loose is great, but it shouldn't hurt the main aspect of the site.

@abge - presumably the person be online so a quick email and PM with an "explain yourself" warning should take seconds to send and a few minutes to make a decision.

So JMO - you know this started today from an OP I put up that was not offensive -- it was a headline crafted not in any obnoxious manner, which simply reflected the actual study that was linked within.

That it blew up in to all of this is not my fault. that I predicted it would is also not my fault.

This "krellin is the source of all evil" notion is ridiculous. It is actually blatantly obvious that there are any number of people around here who will come after me with guns blazing if I declare the sky is blue on a sunny day.

So seriously....time to stop the lynch-krellin mentality and start addressing the WHOLE of the culprits around here, of which I openly admit i am *ONE* -- because I am man enough to do so. What's sad is that so many others around here with shit dripping from their lips refuse to admit their willing part in all of this poo flinging.

"I didn't know Kestas had given him more leeway to mold the forum."

I am merely here to carry out His wishes.

@Draug

What I mean is, trying to discern the context of every "joke" could become very laborious.

Agreed, so a simple PM and if you don't like the answer silence or warn as you see fit. No long drawn out thing. If they can't explain it in a brief response providing a chain of thought that got them there, they have more issues than just a stupid silencing.

@Krellin -

Personally, I don't like Putin33's style, because he enters every discussion with his mind made up, nothing to learn, derisive of people being "incoherent" when knocking around ideas, and finally scolding people who don't buy his pseudo-theology.

BUT... there's a HUGE difference between besmirching "anyone" of the Christian faith and making false accusations against a specific person. Don't tell me I'm being disingenuous - a hypothetical "false moral judgment" against no one in particular is simply a different thing that specific allegations against an actual person.

You should drop the smear campaign.

Oh don't get me wrong, my comment, while expanding on abge's answer to your question, applies to everyone. What I want to see is a forum that encourages diplomacy. The freedom and openness of the forum is awesome and what makes it unique, but that element shouldn't be pushed so far that we risk losing members to negativity of a small percentage of the forum. So what I'm asking as a member, and what I believe most of you are willing to do out of respect for Kestas if nothing else, is to try and contain the fights to a degree, to make an effort to be more respectful to even the people who you cannot stand.

And please, don't think I'm overemphasizing how much this means to kestas, keeping in mind he made the rules read the very first thing in them for mod responsibilities and the first thing for player responsibilities:

"Mods & admins take a relaxed approach to rule enforcement based on mutual respect for other players."

"Use common sense and respect other players."

Now this goes to abge to make decisions on and enforce, but if everyone makes this effort I highly doubt he'll need to do much forum moderating.