Krellin she was turned down for migraines and allergies. She has fine blood pressure, no cancer or heart problems and this isn't an atypical case. I know other people who do pay the 1k+ just for health insurance.


All I want is the safety net personally and to get rid of pre-existing conditions. Though some reform is something most people agree on.

Ugh, Draug, it appears you really are suggesting income is the only thing that determines whether a degree is worth it? I'm sure you would win that contest - but very few get a phD because it maximizes their profit potential. So though I'm sure you'll win any "contest" based on a purely income / time invested standpoint, I'm sure you'll agree that there are other things a phD track offers that make it "worth it" regardless of income.

@special k c'mon be real. You are an engineer and couldn't hack it in engineering, so you got the shit job that would take you. It's OK man, that's what happens to big shots like you in the real world. When your mouth only counts for 5% of who you are, the value of the rest of you becomes obvious fast.

You bring capitalism into healthcare and the quality drops, maybe because capitalism is about maximising profit not about quality.
I'm sure if the focus was on the quality of patient care then the outcomes and service would be better. In a capitalist economy how do you incentivise people (including mgmt, not just front line staff) other than just offering them more money.

People keep thinking healthcare reform is about healthcare. Capitalism isn't really in healthcare, it is in health *insurance*. Quality of care doesn't suffer because we have health *insurance* unless the insurance company has say in denyhing services or payment there of. Our present problem is the level of influence insurance has on health care instead of standards that the insurance companies must abide by. That is actually the one part of Obamacare I support: standards and requirements for insurers. This reduces the risk to the healthcare industry because they know that simply filling out the p[roper forms means they *will* get paid by the insurer and not have to deal with one insurer saying a procedure is experimental while another accepts and pays it.

@Celtic - I understand your statements and tend to agree. From a business standpiont, you do understand the problem with "pre-existing" conditions: Person does not buy health care, does not take care fo themselves, and then suddenly finds out they have a disease, so *NOW* they buy health insurance and say "Pay for me!", even though before that they were not contributing to the pool.

Can you buy automobile insurance AFTER you get in a car crash? Nope....so why should you be allowed to do the same with health insurance?

But yes...there needs to be a safety net...

And yes...Obama's plan - that everyone *must* buy health insurance - is the only structure that makes "pre-existing" coverage not a problem, because it means everyone has always been paying in to the pool of money.

The problem with heath insurance costs is that the market is *not* open an competitive.

I buy automobile insurance from a national company that advertising nationally, has national offices, etc...i.e. reduced costs. the Feds will not allow the same competitive market place for health insurance, which artificailly keeps costs high. Add to that the liability insurance costs because Congress won't take on the lawyers guild...and you have high health insurance costs. Get the legal costs out of the system, and allow competitiion, and costs will come down.

@YJ - You were the one made the suggestion, not me. Remember that. Judge not lest ye be judged. For by what measure ye meat, it shall be met unto you. You passed a judgement with a specific measure on Krellin (income after you get your PhD) so I passed it back onto you.

@YJ - You clearly know nothing abut the business world. I'll make a hell of a lot more money pedaling engineering flesh than I will being stuck at a desk going over the latest and greatest specifications for a widget. But because I am an engineer, I can talk to candidates and managers far better than some liberal arts twit who typically goes in to HR. My company is full of ex-engineers for that very reason, including the PhD Math major that runs the company.

It's too bad that your are so book smart, but know so very, very little about the world in which you live.

Yes, you're right, YJ,. there's no money to be made in technical recruiting. All those huge corporations that do only recruiting for a business...their fictitious...lol

God...you're hilarious -- I laugh every time I see you come crawling after me again....but I delight in correcting your oh-so-numerous errors in thoughts and understanding of not just the world, but life and happiness itself.

And krellin has it spot on about helaht insurance versus care insurance. I can say that when I was unemployed and COBRA ran out, I actually was turned down completely by several insurance companies (diabetes and thyroid) despite having covergae when I started looking. That was pre Obamacare. Luckily, Kentucky had a guaranteed acceptance program where if you were denied coverage by three different carriers, you could get on the state plan. But even that cost me $800 per month (thank God for savings).

With states being able to restrict health insurance companies form doing business within their borders, they have created a closed market of a few providers who can they jack up prices together, rake in massive profits with little to no oversite, and crush the little guy just trying to survive.

Health insurance reform means that borders should be oipened up liek they are for other forms of insurance and that there is a national *insurance* program everyone automatically is signed up for and they can then opt out by showing proof of coverage. In that way, it becomes a tax as Obama presented it with a tax break for those who have other coverage.

@CF - See above for how I think things *should* be run which would make it much better for your Mom-in-law. Also realize that $200 per month is my contribution to a group plan. The company contributes at least that much (and htis year more than that because they were determined not to raise out rates despite the insurance company raising them). Yes, I realize I work for a great company. No doubt about it. But this isn't the first that was this good. Many of my employers in the past have done similar things. They key is, when lookign for a job, don't just look at salary and/or location. Look at *all* the benefits. Next to who you marry, who you work for is your biggest decision in life. Cars come and go. House do as well. But jobs stick with you forever, even after you move onto another one, and they have a huge influence on your life when you are at them.

@krellin: Oh, I don't doubt that there's lots of money to be made in that field. I just know for a fact you aren't getting much of it :P

@draugnar Oh, well that makes sense, but please let me remind you.... I no longer necessarily believe in or try to back up anything I say to krellin. I used to, but he's established over and over again that he can't have a civil disagreement with anybody, so he's lost that modicum of respect. Now I just pick the thing that's most likely to piss him off. It's a fun game. Even when I tell him what I'm doing he still lets the udders out.

@Yj - Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify that I only pointed it out to you because you pointed it out to him. To me, the person who does the best they can and rises in their position to a level they are satisfied with is a success, whether that be head custodian or CEO. As long as they put forth their best effort, I give them all the credit int he world. It's the whiner silver spoon liberals like Bo that get on my nerves.

Oh I know I'm fortunate when it comes to health insurance myself. Both me and Mr.CF work for companies that proved awesome health insurance.

I agree that Insurance companies should be able to compete interstate. Not sure why they aren't already. I also think Cable companies should be able to compete as well. Give the customer more options and maybe the rates would go down some.

In other wrods, YJ has lost so many arguments with me, he won't try anymore.

Witness above...he says there is no money to be made in staffing, and now he says there is money to be made in it. Why does he say there is money to be made now? Oh...because I pointed out the facts and he was forced to admit his intellectual failures, *again*. Then he tries to pass it off as "Oh...I just don't even try any more" when the reality is, "Oh...I just keep getting my ass kicked by a superior intellect..."

Sad, YJ...sad...

Celtic -- shhhhhh!!!! You are espousing free market capitalism! That might get you lynched around here by certain nanny-staters...

Hey krellin, why are you poorer than most engineers? Is it because you can't hack? Yes or no?

Hey YJ - Engineers don't hack unless they are Software Engineers (which Krellin isn't IIRC). Hackers hack.

Yes, because words always have only one definition, Big D ;)

Haa ha ha...wow, yes, first, your blatant misunderstanding of what an engineer does is the first laughable statement you make...
Second, your continuing obsession with me is creepy to say the least...but as I said before, my gold-digging friend, you'll not be partaking of my wealth as I am married, and you certainly are not my type. I prefer someone intelligent enough to carry on a conversation. Perhaps you should continue to chase after bo-sox...though I know with 2WL recent confession that might be a tough fight...

OK...off to pedal some more engineering flesh and skim my fat graft off the top...

The phrase "you couldn't hack" has *only* one meaning. What you meant to say was "you couldn't hack *it*". Leave off a word and change the meaning. But don't blame me because you can't hack it when it comes to common English phrases.

Now you're just being silly, Draug. It's OK, I know why you're doing it.

Hey krellin, if you're such a great engineer then why can't you program? Is it because you're a loser? Yes or no?

I'm a pedant (not a pedo) and that phrase needs to be used correctly. You can't hack it is colloquial for not able to make it in the field. You can't hack means literally, you are not a hacker. Would you say easy as cake and piece of pie? No, so why screw this phrase up. The only one I hate worse is when people say "I could care less" when they actually mean "I couldn't care less" or they say "it literally killed me" when they really eman "it *nearly* killed me". Certain things set me off, and bad phrasology is one of them.

Well Draugnar, I respectfully disagree, and the point where I have to get a dictionary to prove it is the point where I no longer care to prove it, at least where semantics are involved. It's just not worth it.

"and the point where I have to get a dictionary to prove it is the point where I no longer care to prove it,..." Another typical YJ post...."OH...I LOST THE ARGUMENT because I'm ill-informed and don't know proper grammar..." and then goes on to blame everyone else for his own failings....

@YJ - why, NO, to answer your question. It's because I now work shorter hours, don't have to leave my family to travel, don't have a fear of being laid off when the industry collapses and I make more money than the engineers I place. A brilliant move, getting me out of a very unstable industry, and in to a position where I prosper all the more when the industry starts firing people and instead chooses to bring in contract help. All and all, an excellent leveraging of my former skill set into a far less stressful, and far more profitable position. See, unlike you, *successful* people take their skills and experience and they *grow* them to become more successful and lucrative, just as Draug has leveraged his skills in to side businesses of his own.

Your constant inquiries in to my life demonstrates your supreme jealousy over my success...It's really kind of sad for you...

" if you're such a great engineer then why can't you program..." Whoever said I can't program? lol I *started* programming back in the days when they taught Cobal and Pascal... Moron...Not to mention - you *clearly* once again have no idea what the profession of Engineer encompasses. Every time post and pathetic attempt at insults, you demonstrate to all your *profound* ignorance of the world you live in.

I think YJ is the best guy on this website, a bit subjective I know but a little controversy never hurt anyone :-)

Oh...when he is rational, YJ can be amusing. Recently, though, he seems to have seriously lost his grip...I don't mind a fellow trying to throw insults for the fun of it...but his are just poorly constructed, half-assed comments that really miss the mark. I mean come on...do a little research, pal...A little flame war is only fun if YJ the Flamer has his shit together...

LOL! I love it when people think EEs and MEs are programmers too. Some of the worst code I've ever had to debug has been written by non-IT engineers. They all *think* they are programmers, but few of them are. Software Engineers are programmers. The rest are amateurs who know a little about a specific language or two but next to nothing about quality structured programming and writing code that can withstand the rigors of real world end-users.

krellin why are you lying? Engineering = programming and you can't hack and you can't hack.