Yes, Yonni, it was terrible luck, but it happened. Such things CAN happen.

I posted this example because I'm interested to see what the pro-life people, who seem to think the potential mother and father are always "to blame" because they "carelessly" had sex, think of this example, where a great deal of caution was used, but a pregnancy still resulted.

For my part, I'm 31 and I'm consulting my doctor about having a vasectomy, because I'm 100% certain that I never want to father a child - but I like having sex.

I support her right to do that and do not think badly of her for doing so.

Lets see....everybody FULLY acknowledges that NO contrceptive is 100% effective...and 2 contraceptives are still NOT 100% effective...everyone agree with that.

She does not want kids.

She does especially not want kids with some young immature jerk....but she loved his dick and stuck it inside her...

When things didn't turn out as planned, she killed someone.

Did I get that about right? Selfish irresponsible person kills another human so as to not have her life inconvenienced? Yes....selfish and irresponsible....because she KNOWS nothing is 100% and stuck a dick inside her anyone with someone that, God forbid she falls into the .001% failure rate, she wouldn't want a kid with.

Stupid bitch.

I wonder how many of you wear a seatbelt? I mean....the chances of gettting in an accident are really low....but we do it anyway. Further, we don't speed. then we have airbags...and really, the chances of dying in a car wreck are slim....and yet it happens every day....it's called life, and there is nothing certain in it. You know....Mom with two kids....buy yourself a good didlo or get your tubes tied.

Grumpy bear* is back.
*yes the homosexual kind ;p

wait wait wait

what the fuck are you talking about krellin

you dont actually think a zygote is any different than spemies do you.

@Jamie Nope not her fault at all.

@Krellin Just getting your tubes tied is not that easy. Some place you have ti be above a certain age to get it done with children. Or be very sure you don't want more if you already have children. I'm just shy of 30 and still to young to get my tubes tied cause in our sue happy society the doctor is scared I'd just turn around and sue if I decided I did want kids.

tangentially, can i just point this out, for your consideration, all.

if, in a given society, there is a consensus that certain entities are not considered human, then their abuse is not going to raise moral pain.

at no time that i am aware of has such a total consensus existed, but theoretically it would.

i'm not really trying to make a point about anything, it just popped into my head

Thucy, i believe that, in the past, it wasn't consider alive until it started to kick (the 'quickening') and with a much higher incidence of miscarriage due to poor health services this left society in a position where an abortion before the quickening was not morally outrageous...

@krellin, you talk about sex as if it is a bad thing. Anyone who suggests abstinence forgets that humans are meant to have sex. Infact you are better off if you are in a healthy emotionally stable sexual relationship.

There are many studies which demonstrate this.

The fact that women try to avoid, for decent economic reasons, having the most kids physically possible is a huge benefit to their health and to society in general.

The fact that the example given is, in your small mind, murder, ignores a lot of biology but more importantly - if you ask me - the welfare of the current children and of the futur child which never got that far.

If life is so sacred, why do you care so little for the quality of life of those currently living???

Krellin, how fucking dare you call my friend, who you know very little about and have never met, a "stupid bitch" ?

She didn't kill anyone. I'd be pretty fucking glad if someone killed *you* though.

Go fuck yourself.

Also:

"She does especially not want kids with some young immature jerk"

Who said he was a jerk? I certainly didn't. Do you know him? Have you met him? How do you conclude he's a jerk? He made the responsible decision to use precautions. He wore a condom while having sex with a woman who was also using contraception. He's not a jerk, but he's also not ready to be a father. I don't see how you have any right to call him a jerk.

I wish your parents had taken more precautions.

Don't you know Jamie, you can only have a sex life if you want children! Anything else is immoral! But you know, conservatives don't want to control anyone, they just want to provide a very very very narrow set of options.

Kamie - you stupid ass, you asked a question and I answered it. don't get all huffy because someone answered your question about your baby-murderng friend.

As for sex -- not ALL of us believe because should constantly be havign sex just because they can, any more than we believe people should drink whenver the hell they want. Maybe some people in the world have a different standard than you do, instead of thinking that they shold just go aruond fucking anything that moves....Your friend apparently decided to fuck some young kid who she really didn't think a whole lot of...I'd say she lacks either judgement or self-control in the extreme. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question jackass.

Mafia -- you can fuck anything you want -- go for it. When something goes WRONG (and it will...be it pregnancy or disease...if you do it enough with enough people)...don't come bitching about it. and let's not murder anyone along the way to keep our selfish lives from being inconvenienced...

I asked a question and you answered it with unfounded, hurtful abuse aimed at people you've never met. You're a horrible, hateful little dick.

@Orthaic....I'm not against sex for recreation. But I'm not going to advocate free-love for everyoen, as you apparently bunch of horny bastards advocate. Some of us have prniciples and standards that are a little stricter than you. I won't apologize for that.

@ Krellin:

"Your friend apparently decided to fuck some young kid who she really didn't think a whole lot of"

I never said that. She does care for him. He's just not ready to be a father. That's why they BOTH used contraception, you twat.

Jamie - Grow up. It's hilarious how you claim I am hateful when you asked a question, I answered it honestly, and you respond like a true juvenile with vile hatred. Too funny.

Your friend *is* a stupid bitch. she killed her baby....and she *acknowledged* it was a baby because she talked to him about keeping it! THAT is tacit acknowledgement that there is a LIFE inside of her...or WAS.

Perhaps the **stupid bitch** should have had a conversation about "what if I get pregnant" BEFORE she stuck his dick inside her, you moron!

Contraception -- you stupid twat -- is WIDELY KNOWN to be faulty. You hear stories of it all the time. Bottom line women - if you stick a dick in you, you should be prepared for the consequences. I'm sorry if that unfortunate TRUTH about life and biology interferes with your selfish need for constant sexual gratification, moron.

@ Krellin:

"and she *acknowledged* it was a baby because she talked to him about keeping it! THAT is tacit acknowledgement that there is a LIFE inside of her...or WAS."

I don't agree. There was an embryo inside her which might well have *become* a baby. That's not the same thing.

If it wasn't a living human baby in developmental form...then there was no need to discuss it with the man-child who's dick she stuck inside herself. You can disagree all you want...she knew it was a baby, and thus talked to the man-child about keeping it, moron.

I will disagree all I want, yes. She discussed it with him because he had a right to know that she was pregnant. That doesn't in any way imply that her decision to abort the pregnancy was murder. The law in most civilised countries, and the weight of medical opinion, is on my side in this debate. God might be on your side, but that doesn't bother me, as he doesn't exist.

If it isn't a baby...then he has no "right' to know anything! It's a woman's body, right? He has NO FUCKING RIGHT to know anything about what is inside it.

Awwww...Jamie loses his own argument!

Hey Jamie...instead of PM'ing me with your vile hate filled speech...post it here, pussy.

But why would she want to keep that information from him?

And Jamie, your ignorant,illiterate twat...I NEVER mentioned God in this discussion. I've mentioned bug larva....which are equivalent to in-utero babies in many ways....and which are considered alive by the scientific community...but I've never mentioned God.

You FAIL again..

I talk to people about all kinds of things I feel they have a right to know about, which aren't babies. I told my girlfriend once that I had forgotten to pay the electric bill. We shared the same house so I felt she had a right to know. The electric bill isn't a baby. Your logic doesn't work.

I never said you mentioned God. You make too many assumptions.

Do you think people who kill bug larva should be prosecuted for murder?