On OP - I would vote for Obama against any other contender at the moment. Hunstman interests me because he's not a dickwad like Perry and Bachmann but he won't win I think Invictus is right about the Secretary of State thing.

In fact I don't think any Republican will win anyway, and yes I know that's not the question. My vote for Obama as a Texan will be for naught though. lol

I would pick Pawntley for his epic Google test.

" If people want to be students at American universities for more than a year they should have to agree to stay."
@Invictus: You are aware that a majority of people going to Ivy league schools are not American right? Cutting the foreigners out of the schools will cut the quality of the schools. Also not to mention restricted education based on where they want to live is closer to fascist policies then democratic policies. As you said earlier to me:
"I can't think of a better word then idiot for a Canadian fascist."
Does that same policy apply to American Fascists?

I vote for Mickey Mouse regardless of when I vote or how many times.

Obama, because if he gets reelected perhaps the GOP can work on compromising with the Dems and long term initiatives instead of jockying for power while the job front continues to suffer can be planned and begun...

I would qualify Invictus statement to only apply to Universities that receive public funding of one form or another. A fully private school should be allowed to accept anyone who wants to, and has the means to, pay their tuition. But an education at a school which receives public funds via research grants and the like (student loans don't count as those are the student's responsibility to pay back, likewise scholarships and student grants are to the student, not the school) should require foreign attendees to either become citizens while they are in school or maintain residency after they graduate for a period of time to repay the people for the tax money they used.

also Obama because of his emphasis on education...

Here are my predictions:

Bachmann: Sarah Palin-wannabe. Not fit to be a crossing guard, much less President. She will probably get strong Tea Party support, especially in Iowa, but no one else will vote for her.

Huntsman: Too moderate to get support from the Tea Party, which will probably be the driving force behind the conservatives this election

Romney: Same as Huntsman. The Tea Party won't like him because of Romneycare. However, he does have the most cash, and the media likes him the best. He is only the front runner because the media says he is. A lot of straw polls are showing both Ron Paul and Herman Cain

Pawlenty/Santorum: Boring career politicians. No one will pay much attention to them.

Rick Perry: Wild card. I don't really know much about him.

Herman Cain: I am a little biased, being a supporter of Herman Cain, but I think he would be the best choice for president. He has both Tea Party and establishment-GOP support, and I think his lack of political experience may appeal to moderates. Everyone is sick of career politicians. He needs to gain more name-recognition to have a real chance, and I think he can do that by performing well in future debates and speeches.

Ron Paul: I think he could win the nomination and the election. He appeals to Tea Partyers, libertarians, and some establishment Republicans. He also appeals to people of all age groups. He leads in a lot of straw polls. He would be my second choice for President if Herman Cain dropped out or didn't win the nomination.

Draugnar et al, do you not think a policy like that would find huge backlash in foreign schools. There are plenty Americans that enjoy studying abroad at universities that are even more heavily funded by their respective countries.

"Universities that receive public funding of one form or another"
I'm not sure how it works in the States, but I imagine most universities receive some sort of research grant from the government, even if it is indirectly

Draugnar, the university thing will NEVER happen and you know that.

"also Obama because of his emphasis on education..."
The republican education platform is superior to Obama's.
Want proof? Look at Wisconsin.

"I would qualify Invictus statement to only apply to Universities that receive public funding of one form or another. A fully private school should be allowed to accept anyone who wants to, and has the means to, pay their tuition. But an education at a school which receives public funds via research grants and the like (student loans don't count as those are the student's responsibility to pay back, likewise scholarships and student grants are to the student, not the school) should require foreign attendees to either become citizens while they are in school or maintain residency after they graduate for a period of time to repay the people for the tax money they used."
So which universities use tax payer money for income and let people in for free? He still has to pay, and universities that require tax payer money is because they don't have enough students to be able to make a profit. Cutting of foreigners who want to apply to schools would be further reducing income (since they still do have to pay, granted not the full budget) and would further reduce the income of the universities. I fail to see the benefit of preventing kids into schools simply because they lack American citizenship and when graduating will work and live abroad.

Also this is assuming we assume that forcing someone to work in a certain city/country is democratic. Since democracys love to infringe on human rights and force them to work in certain cities and restrict abilities of graduates to move.

OK, Fasces, how about the rate for non-citizens be higher. State schools already do that for out of state studentys, so let's do it for out of country students. Our own students who study abroad typically do so on exchange programs which would still be a feasible alternative and not require the exchange student to pay more than the student they are in exchange with would have paid. My nephew went to NZ and studied Civil Engineering one year as an exchange student.

@Fasces - try going to school on the military's dime via ROTC and not serving your country when you are done. It already happens, dude.

We need to privatize primary, secondary, and post-secondary education. Education is too important to leave to clumsy union-backed government bureaucracy.

@gunfighter: With some form of voucher system I hope? Because without vouchers, poor kids would get screwed.

Of all things, shouldn't a child's education be as even a playing field as possible regardless of it's parents income?

@ Yonni

I don't see why. It is important for education to have a very good minimum standard for the sake of the nation, but I can't for the life of me see any reason to stop wealthy types spending a fortune to go the extra mile. Giving your children an advantage in life is one of few good reasons for trying to become wealthy in the first place.

@Gunfighter:

That's nice, if Cain has a master's in mathematics...

He can still make an idiotic statement--and, with his "all bills will be 3 pages long!" declaration, he just did.

@Thucy:

Maybe distance shouldn't matter, but--correct me if I'm wrong, psych majors--I think I recall reading it literally DOES...that psychologically we generally care more with that which is closer to us, more identifiable (hence the reason what'sit'sname...Christian's Children's Fund? I think? The one that's always saying "for x dollars a day little *insert name* can have shoes and food and know someone cares" and so on? They put the face of the kids on screen so you can match a face to the cause, and thus form a connection...and they say you'll receive letters, thus making it feel as if you're closer to the child, and connected to them, and, thus, you care.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure psychologically distance DOES matter, right or not, and so movements try and have faces on the TV and the like you an recognize and relate to in order to overcome the distance barrier psychologically.)

Completely agree with Octavious. Private school is infinitely better than public and a rich person's right to separate their children from other's not like them. Vouchers are a terrible idea.

I will be voting for Pres. Obama, who has not yet been given a chance to lead the country.

"fantastic country...even if they are racist"=muted. Our country is better off with people like this leaving. Please take five more like you when you go.

Vouchers are actually a great idea as long as the private schools are allowed to chose not to accept them under any circumstances if they like. Most voucher programs are for public magnet schools right now. But making them available to private schools if that school wants to accept them (I'm sure some of the private religious schools would) makes perfect sense. Again, though, it must be a voluntary acceptance on the part of the private school. They should never be forced or coerced into accepting the vouchers.

@Oct and Geofram

Because it perpetuates a class system which continues from generation to generation.
Even more so than in the currently situation, kids growing up in disenfranchised families would have only a slim opportunity to 'make it.' I think that's morally pretty repulsive.

Well, some of us have no problem with a class based society. And to say one can't move up in class is disingenuous. I came from a lower middle to middle income class family. I've worked hard and made it up the ladder higher than my dad. He came from a low income household of factory workers and worked hard to become a non-degreed engineer. You can get ahead in this world on your own labor.

@ Yonni

You will never get a level playing field. The success of a child depends more on their family than anything else. If a child comes from a family which cares about education and is willing to put effort into helping their children (by perhaps paying for a stupidly expensive school with impressive teacher:pupil ratios, or maybe spending a good few hours a week helping with the child's homework etc etc) the child will more often than not do well. If a child comes from a family that doesn't give a damn then it will have a hard time trying to be a success.

Now I am all for trying to give children a good start in life, but we will not achieve that by limiting the tools that can be used by the families that care.

@ Yonni

You will never get a level playing field. The success of a child depends more on their family than anything else. If a child comes from a family which cares about education and is willing to put effort into helping their children (by perhaps paying for a stupidly expensive school with impressive teacher:pupil ratios, or maybe spending a good few hours a week helping with the child's homework etc etc) the child will more often than not do well. If a child comes from a family that doesn't give a damn then it will have a hard time trying to be a success.

Now I am all for trying to give children a good start in life, but we will not achieve that by limiting the tools that can be used by the families that care.

When I win the lottery I will donate a good few thousand to sort out that 500 error thing :p

"Well, some of us have no problem with a class based society"
Of course, and that's a choice that everyone makes with their vote and citizenship.

"You can get ahead in this world on your own labor"
And that's the way it should be. However, starting someone off in such a deep hole because of their parents propensity to make money is pretty rough. If you had been forced to go to crappier primary and high schools do you think its plausible that you wouldn't have been able to make it to where you are today?


Society might have been robbed of a smart, hard working non-degreed engineer and had him replaced with a dumb, lazy, non-degreed engineer with rich parents.

Of course education doesn't make a person, but it certainly helps to get a first job if you can show a piece of paper (preferably with the name of a good institution). Without the equal opportunity to get an appropriate education, jobs are less likely to be handed out on merit.

Haa ha ha! Geofram, who had *totally benefited and taken advantage of the US* claims the Us is a cesspool of corruption! what a god-damned fucking hypocrite!

Ok. The 500 errors are getting crazy lately.

@Draugnar, if vouchers happen, it would have to happen as a voluntary program. I still don't like the idea because it destroys the last hope of public school being worth anything but child care, but at least the good private schools could say no.

@Yonni, we're not living in a disney movie. We live in a world of have's and have-not's. I'm completely fine with that.

@krellin, when in rome my friend.