I don't argue about God not revealing the science behind creation an impossibility. I usually use the same logic to explain how aliens could exist and Christianity be true. 1. Why would God create a bunch of infinite empty space filled with planets we will never see. 2. God would not of told the people writing the bible of aliens because no one would have listened, Scientology is a good example they have such a small following because their story is beyond bizarre.

'But the advantages an organism would get from flight would not be available until the bird could actually fly' - no my point about gliders is that they can't fly, but there is still a benefit to them (presumebaly for feeding in trees, or escaping predators)

@HC - there is no single 'he' there is much more likely a collection of specific alleles (variations one particular genes - so in humans at present certain alleles may be associated with compulsive gambling, ie you are more likely to become addicted to something if you have a particular variant of a particular gene, which is likely in your family's genetic heritage) - they entire species or 'genepool' is a collection of all currently living alleles in the species and this will slowly drift (which alleles are more/less common will vary over time) based on environmental factors

There are also likely many genes responcible for higher brain function, and as such many varieties of human intelligence. It would not need to be some step function, suddenly making a single individual very different from every other member of their species. And to suggest otherwise belies your lack of understanding.

I hope i'm not being condescending. I also hope i'm not wasting my time trying to explain...

it would be like you are claiming that some people in our modern genepool have higher IQ (a crappy measure of intelligence, for certain, but it's a measure we can make at least) thus they will not mate with anyone who scores 10 IQ points lower...

this is entirely plausible, but that doesn't mean the 'higher intelligence' humans will die out because they rfeuse to mate at all...

So where do aliens come into this?

'Of course, I'm really a deist who feels the laws of physics *are* God seeing as he is in everything at all times.'

I have to plus 1 this. Close to my views in many ways...

@BB - "Elder Jeffrey R. Holland puts it better than I can: http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng "

Now it makes sense. I've been arguing from a traditional Christian perspective with one who believes soem magical book was found here with the native American's that only one guy could interpret and translate... Gotcha.

@orthaic
OK, I mildly understand what you are saying. I mostly study calculus and physics. I really don't pay much attention to Biology or English.

LOL.

PE you are a brilliant man. Wow.

When did Mormonism come into this. Science has already proven that the species did not start in Jackson County Missouri.

@HC - "I do have a question about evolution. It occurs when a species is in a desperate need to survive in a changing environment. "

See. that is your primary flaw. Evolution *can* occur because of a desperate need, but it can also occur as gradual adaption to *improve* the odds off survival and allow the species to *flourish* in an environment. It isn't all about desperate cir cumstances. Your religious indoctrination has misled you to believe that.

@HC - " Scientology is a good example they have such a small following because their story is beyond bizarre. "

Its author and creator also admitted he made it up to rake in the cash...

I think that the point about multi-genes (or gene(s) as I call them) controlling inheritance is tiresome. Most of us know that a variety/combination of genes are proposed to control a particular phenotype expression. When someone falls into the trap of using the word ''gene'' in the singular as a shorthand, they tend to get jumped on from a great height by others, in a condescending and patronising manner. In my view it is a cheap trick.

@Draugnar
Wow, I ask a simple question and you go against my religion again. No, I was going off what I have read.

HC, it would be better if you read more about evolution, from reputable sources, then start refuting our arguments. Right now you just look like you're ignorant.

"Science has already proven that the species did not start in Jackson County Missouri."

Yes, it has also proven it didn't start 6000 years ago. Why do you believe one and not the other?

Wow. What has happened since I was here last?

Shit hit the fan.

Shit or shitty arguments? Is it still going in circles?

@HC - Your understanding of evolution is seriously flawed. I'm sorry if I assumed you got it from a Christian/Catholic indocrintation (i.e. private religious school). If not and that is what public school is teaching now, then our public schools are woefully misinforming our youth.

@YJ - I wouldn't say it has proven it didn't start 6K years ago, but I certainly agree the evidence is overwhelming and do not deceive myself into being a Young Earth/Creationist.

Human beings are irrational.
Sometimes it manifests in minor aspects.
Sometimes it makes you troll forums saying that creationism is science.

'@orthaic OK, I mildly understand what you are saying.'

good, i hope i wasn't coming across as condescending... just trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

@Nike - I returned of course! :-)

No, you had already returned when I was here earlier. But yes, it seems ALL the trolls (-bolshoi [banned, YAY] and TC) are rolling out the welcome carpet.

Or rather "trolling" out the welcome carpet.

not sure if really dumb

or out-trolling me on my own troll thread

I love the fact that people are saying I sound ignorant for asking a question. How does that work? I did not say. I don't believe in evolution, because I don't understand it and I don't want to. I asked about what I have read and was wondering how such could occur.

Not all chirstians believe the Earth is 6000 years old. Some do some don't.

Well, not believing something because you "don't want to" believe it could easily make you sound willfully ignorant if we're talking about a widely-accepted scientific theory.

@HC - "I don't believe in evolution and I think this forum's argument is retarded."

Not a question and why you were attacked. It is a provacative statement with a judgment biased against the topic at hand.

"I do have a question about evolution. It occurs when a species is in a desperate need to survive in a changing environment. I was wondering what could of changed to make humans to become sentient and the first human that became such wouldn't he have to have then mated with the lower life forms. That is what I cannot grasp. If he has come to the point of higher brain function why would he mate with a bunch of ape-like humans. "

A loaded question based on a misunderstanding of how evolution actually works. When taken into consideration with your statement immediately prior, one would naturally assume you weren't honestly asking a question but were being an ass. One asshole statement followed by a question pertaining to the subject you supposedly don't believe in will clearly invalidate the question as legit.

I don't believe it because with evidence that I have been presented there has not been enough to convince me. There is evidence for it and against it. I see the too conflicting to much to except it as fact. I see how evolution can be true, but I also see how it can be false.