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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Sicarius (673 D)
10 Feb 12 UTC
free book "How Non-violence Protects The State"
Previously I have advertised this then emailed it to all interested. I now found omeone to host it so here you are, How Non-violence Protects The State http://www.occupytoledo.org/sites/default/files/webform/How%20NonViolence.pdf
16 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
18 Feb 12 UTC
ALL
Fan of the American Life League? This is why you are batshit insane:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWHsFE4TNGs
3 replies
Open
carpenter (645 D)
18 Feb 12 UTC
Player banned in a new game
Take over Argenitina in the following game (the guy got banned in Spring moves of 2001): gameID=80690
1 reply
Open
Sandgoose (0 DX)
18 Feb 12 UTC
Mod Question
So, if a player gets banned that you have played with, is there a system that reimburses points? for example a PPSC or a WTA that was drawn. Or is that out of the question? Just asking :)
5 replies
Open
Grand Duke Feodor (0 DX)
16 Feb 12 UTC
High Pot Game
Hey Guys,

Im interested in starting a new high pot game. Perhaps at around 100-150 D. Perhaps PPSC, Anon 1 day 12 hour phase. If anyone is interested please let me know.
53 replies
Open
hammac (100 D)
19 Jan 12 UTC
Western Europe World Cup Team
Any interest from western europeans (not Iberia or England cos they have at least part teams already) ??? I have stolen the gunboat option but need 4 more if we're going to have a team AND substitute!
37 replies
Open
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
01 Feb 12 UTC
webDip Intro for F2Fers
I'm trying to recruit some F2Fers to webDip and have started a gunboat game for them to get used to how our site works. More info inside.
88 replies
Open
Indybroughton (3407 D(G))
18 Feb 12 UTC
SUB FOR HIGH QUALITY GAME STILL IN FIRST TURN
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=80847
10 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
18 Feb 12 UTC
Game 1: Betrayal
EOG thread. gameID=78703
Please do not discuss any of the games that remain in play in any way shape or form. Thanks.
7 replies
Open
bashell (100 D)
18 Feb 12 UTC
please join my korean diplomacy site // 한국사람 있어요?
hello? i'm korean pbem user.
we can produce some bulletin board for diplomacy and game of throne.
so we need player for game of throne.
if you wanna join use plz visit this site. http://blissoul.nayana.kr/xe/
0 replies
Open
CoronadoKid (100 D)
18 Feb 12 UTC
live game
join here - http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=80916
1 reply
Open
hellalt (90 D)
15 Feb 12 UTC
EOG gunboat
gameID=77827
Italy why the hell did you support France into tri giving him the solo?
Turkey proved that he didn't want to attack you anymore so your participation in the final draw was secured.
Jesus that's what I call stupidity.
14 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
16 Feb 12 UTC
Subs needed
Hey all, I'm looking for 3 subs for the Masters tournament. It's currently stalled, and lots of players are (rightfully) frustrated. It's two games at most and they'd be starting ASAP. Reliable, experienced players preferred.
8 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
11 Feb 12 UTC
For Profit Colleges over Public Funded Colleges
An illuminating argument put forth by Andrew Rosen in a new book called "Change.edu." He puts for the argument that publicly funded universities no longer see students as their customers, and that this accounts for the glaring failure of America's publicly funded higher education system.
59 replies
Open
HalberMensch (1783 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
Unpause Request GameID 78381
Could a moderator please unpause this game for us?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=78381
3 replies
Open
DipperDon (6457 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
Run With The Big Dogs
300 D, anonymous, 2-day, wta

2 replies
Open
Kartheiser (128 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
Is this a glitch?
Read response..
9 replies
Open
kaner406 (356 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
Zeus 5 - open for business:
A new variant by Chris Northcott, Fred C. Davis Jr. and Tom Reinecker has been added at vDip:
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=70
16 replies
Open
Indybroughton (3407 D(G))
16 Feb 12 UTC
24 hour contest - best current political joke (US)
And then the community votes..
9 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
34 player world map
one open spot over at vdip http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=5771 just started, no moves yet (except initial builds)
2 replies
Open
CoronadoKid (100 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
join up fools
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=80856
3 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
If there are any moderators online, please check your emails ASAP.
I have a query pertaining an ongoing live game, and if it's at all possible I would highly appreciate having the matter resolved before the game ends. Thank you for your time.
40 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
EOG: Seriously, keep it classy folks
Reserved.
2 replies
Open
CoronadoKid (100 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
Live Game
Starting Live Game-281. Join if interested.
0 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
17 Feb 12 UTC
It is impossible to get a good gunboat live game these days.
Always someone quitting and forcing an obnoxiously huge draw. Ugh.
35 replies
Open
Leonidas (635 D)
16 Feb 12 UTC
Ranking
Can someone explain to me the ranking system, in one game (a win) my rank/position went from...
14 replies
Open
patizcool (100 D)
16 Feb 12 UTC
EOG GB-WTA-32090
seriously?
11 replies
Open
Gamma (570 D)
16 Feb 12 UTC
Filtering players
Is there any way to filter out players without making the bet stupidly large?
I'm in a world game where South Africa, Ghana, Libya and Argentina have given up almost from the first round giving FA and Kenya a massive advantage.

It has been happening in other games too.
5 replies
Open
carpenter (645 D)
16 Feb 12 UTC
To PhD or not to PhD.
As my education is finished in one year, my interest is shifted to possible future employers. Since I'm still undecided about doing a PhD and I know there are quite a lot people here doing/having done them, I have a small question for all of you: Why did you choose to (not) do a PhD? Which factor played and important role and which only a minor one?
33 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
04 Feb 12 UTC
Syria
I know everyone has their shit to say about humanitarian intervention. Mine is: this has gotten far too bad, it is time to intervene, despite the risks.
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Tolstoy (1962 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"Intervention is needed from international community when a dictator is opressing and KILLING their own citizens. It is so because the opposite means to allow him killing more and more people."

Okay. Let's say we intervene, Assad is hanged in the main square in Damascus... and someone WORSE rises to the top in the inevitable power vacuum. Do we intervene again? Do we keep intervening until a regime that is 100% western-acceptable finally rises to the top? How many people have died in the meantime? How many Americans wind up homeless because they can't afford to pay the taxes and inflation that will inevitably increase to pay for all these humanitarian interventions?
Invictus (240 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"I think North Korea/Iran/Tibet/Africa in general counts as "extreme suffering..."

WHY NOT THERE...WHY SYRIA?"

Yeah, why not there? Again, I oppose military intervention, but we have a duty to stand against abuses and give all support short of putting our forces in harm's way to stop such crimes from occurring. It's hardly a simple policy which can apply in the same way in all cases (it's easier to put sanctions on Zimbabwe than China, for obvious reasons), but it needs to be clear what side we're on. There are limits to Realpolitik, and Syria has crossed a threshold in a similar way that Serbia or Sudan did. I don't want to bomb Damascus, but I want it to be clear that this cannot go on and everythign short of war should be done to get this madman out. It won't solve Syria's problems, but there's no hope of solving them with him there.

"What non-military help do you have in mind? Certainly not monetary, not in our state of affairs"

The money we would spend on support for the Syrian resistance is peanuts. Our fiscal crisis comes from entitlements. The Stimulus cost less than the entire Iraq War and all the estimates on going to Mars. We can absolutely afford to funnel weapons from Jordan or Turkey into Syria for the defected military units to use. This is the same sort of strategy we used to help the Chadian kick out Gaddafi in the 1980s. No direct involvement, and cover our tracks.

There should also be a total boycott and financial isolation of the Assad regime, and we should recognize the Syrian National Council.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"The money we would spend on support for the Syrian resistance is peanuts."

Well, that's different, then!

As it's just "peanuts," and you REALLY are into this cause, picking it above and instead of all those others...and I'm just trying to get my foot in the employment door...

Why don't YOU foot the cost of the war/"intervention" for me, eh?

In fact, if it's REALLY just "peanuts," would it be OK if you funded the effort yourself...see, we have this Great Recession thing going on, and most of us can't afford such things...especially when the outcome is in doubt, it helps a nation of dubious intent, and there are other causes that warrant just as much if not more attention that, apparently, you've shunted to one side, because THIS is the cause you have personally anointed as being worthy of someone else's combat time and my money.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
And your, ahem, "plan" above is, well, a tad vague...

No military intervention, but you want to "be clear that this cannot go on."

Well, just like calling the effort "peanuts"...

When you put it that way--gee, it's all so SIMPLE!

Please, Invictus, solve world hunger for us next!

"If we just can find some way to have enough food for everyone to eat..."

BRILLIANT!
Invictus (240 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"Okay. Let's say we intervene, Assad is hanged in the main square in Damascus... and someone WORSE rises to the top in the inevitable power vacuum. Do we intervene again? Do we keep intervening until a regime that is 100% western-acceptable finally rises to the top? How many people have died in the meantime? How many Americans wind up homeless because they can't afford to pay the taxes and inflation that will inevitably increase to pay for all these humanitarian interventions?"

I DON'T WANT AN INTERVENTION! I want the United States to NOT intervene militarily but put the full force of diplomacy and economics on the Assad regime to engineer its collapse. That will not give the people of Syria the government they deserve, but it so long as he's there there is no hope for things to get better.

Make it clear that Assad cannot hope for any meaningful support internationally, and aid the people rising against him. Who knows what the guy after him will look like, but a victorious Assad would have a chilling effect on human rights struggles world-wide. He would show that if you behave with complete wickedness you can remain in power and the world will do nothing of substance to be rid of you. I DON'T want the United States involved in a war, but I do want us to do everything else we can to remove this monster from power.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"I DON'T WANT AN INTERVENTION!"

Lighten up, dude. I was responding to someone else.
Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
05 Feb 12 UTC
"Make it clear that Assad cannot hope for any meaningful support internationally"

In other news today, Russia, China and Iran ceased to exist!
Invictus (240 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"As it's just "peanuts," and you REALLY are into this cause, picking it above and instead of all those others...and I'm just trying to get my foot in the employment door...

Why don't YOU foot the cost of the war/"intervention" for me, eh?"

It would be peanuts, compared to the rest of the Defense budget. Even a billion dollars (and it wouldn't be a billion dollars) isn't much when you have 800 more.


"And your, ahem, "plan" above is, well, a tad vague..."

Yeah it's vague. I'm not actually making a full policy proposal. You want me to produce a specific, professional strategy for Syria like I'm a State Department employee?
Invictus (240 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
Sorry, Tolstoy.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
+1 Hellenic Riot...
Invictus (240 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
China vetoed so a precedent wasn't set for condemnation of their own actions. There's a huge demographic bomb about to go off in China, and they're getting ready.

As for Iran, I doubt support from another isolated regime which brutalizes its people (cough 2009 elections cough) is much comfort to Assad.

There's a Foreign Policy article on Russia and Syria. It'll expalin what's going on there.
Invictus (240 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
Opposing a war in Syria I can understand. I'm of that opinion myself. But opposing opposing Assad strikes me as dangerous and wrong. Have the termites got so far that we can't bring ourselves to stand against such an obvious example of state terror?
Tolstoy (1962 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"Have the termites got so far that we can't bring ourselves to stand against such an obvious example of state terror?"

That's the same kind of neo-Jacobin thinking that got America into Iraq. I'm still not convinced that all the anti-Asad propaganda isn't bogus. The guy was a friggin' eye doctor in London before being conscripted into the role of Crown Prince just before his father died. I really doubt he's all that good at the 'brutal' part of dictating.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"As for Iran, I doubt support from another isolated regime which brutalizes its people (cough 2009 elections cough) is much comfort to Assad."

If the Assad is such a horrible madman...

Why would he care if another regime was ALSO brutal?

Heck, if anything, it seems almost like a horribly-cruel thing for the two leaders/nations to bond over, so to speak...
Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
05 Feb 12 UTC
Reminds me of the way the west attempts to paint Hugo Chavez as an evil dictator when he's done a solid job for Venezuela tbh.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Feb 12 UTC
I don't have time to read your lovely comments but just to clarify my own position, briefly as possible:

-I am in favor of consistency, but I also know that the United States neither wants nor can nor even should (legal constraints) intervene in all the unjust zones of the world. It SHOULD push for such things diplomatically at the level of the UN, and at the very least stop supporting horrible things (Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Israel etc etc). In Syria however you have people being gunned down by the government.

It really does not matter, not it DOES NOT matter who those people are, or who supports the government and how much and what percentage.

No. Yeah that does not change the fact that you have a government killing people unjustly. The government exists to stop that sort of thing, so when the government is gone, other governments are going to have correct for their dereliction of duty. I am aware things are very sectarian, and that if the roles were reversed it would likely be the same. Which is why you can't just depose the Alawites and look away. That would be worse than doing nothing.

And for anyone who is like "BUT IRAQ, REMEMBER HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED"

This is not Iraq. These deaths are real. You want to talk about Iraq II, talk about invading Iran. Syria would be Libya II, Somalia II even, not Iraq II. Iraq was justified in humanitarian terms but was never about that and you should all no better than to make that mistake.

Yes I know this shit is always about oil, I know we won't be going in. I think we should though. And I don't think this is a knee-jerk reaction - for months I watched and waited and suspended judgment because I know you can't take these things lightly - and it is just getting fucking out of hand. Hundreds of people being killed at once is not something you can just talk about and do nothing.

One last thing: if you question my motives personally or want to paint me as a hypocrite, let me assure you that if the US Army came to me and said "we need YOU to go fight in Syria as part of the humanitarian mission," yes, I would go. I'm not saying this to say "look how good a person I am" I am saying this to show you that I mean what I am saying, I'm not just talking out of my ass.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Feb 12 UTC
Clarification re: Iraq: "These deaths are real" was to contrast with the fictional nature of the "WMDs" said to be in Iraq, the justification for the invasion of that country.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Feb 12 UTC
Relevant article Foreign Policy:

You’re in Trouble When the Arab League Makes the Security Council Look Like a Joke:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/02/03/the_cynics_at_the_gates?page=0,1
Tolstoy (1962 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
"Iraq was justified in humanitarian terms but was never about that and you should all no better than to make that mistake."

Likewise, you shouldn't make the mistake of supporting yet another war because it's cloaked in the rhetoric of good intentions. Why Syria, and not any of the dozens of other regimes that kill their own people? That's the question you should be asking. Be careful not to get caught up in someone else's mysterious agenda because the newsreaders they control are suckering you into a particular advocacy.

"This is not Iraq. These deaths are real."

The Halabja Kurds were real, as were the Shi'ites Saddam was hanged for killing. So were all the people prince Uday chopped up. These were all justifications for the war. In fact, the humanitarian reasons were trumpeted a bit more than the national security reasons as I recall (probably because the latter were completely ridiculous on their face).

"You want to talk about Iraq II, talk about invading Iran. Syria would be Libya II, Somalia II even, not Iraq II."

There are a heckuva lot of assumptions here, which only the hindsight of history written in another 50 years may be able to prove or unravel - maybe not even then. And the Somalia I I remember was in 1992-93, and it wasn't pretty. You may've seen a certain Hollywood movie about it. Fortunately, for all his faults, Clinton knew when to cut his losses and get out of a bad situation.
You all are fucking heartless. People are dying by the hundreds every day in Syria and you go right on the Syrian government's side of this. Well I have a few things to say about that.

You point to China and Russia protecting Syria from military intervention. That doesn't mean shit. For China, it's just one totalitarian state looking out for another. China is full of civil rights abuses and wants to prevent a trend of the world intervening against nations that harm their citizens. Russia is protecting its ally in the region and also preventing that same trend so it doesn't get called out for Chechnya. I mean Russia has a naval base and arms contracts with Syria. You don't expect the military-industrial complex to be weaker in other nations than it is here, right? But on a side note, I wish the opposition would go to the peace talks Russia is willing to host. They would fail even if they went, but I think it would be better for their cause if they tried it out.

My sources are youtube videos, arab league observer's reports (including pictures of them standing on the ground in a town surrounded by .50 cal bullet shells) and some first-hand reports from the few (seems like 1 or 2) western reporters on the ground there. I don't listen to the talk-show hosts about it, I look at the evidence. Tanks rolling through small towns shooting their .50 cals and Syrian government troops trashing a house and setting up a sniper's nest aren't exactly protestor-friendly actions. The body count the UN is staying by isn't made up. The death toll in Syrian over the past few months (somewhere above 6,000 now) is coming close to the total number of NATO forces killed in Afghanistan and Iraq combined over the past decade (almost 7,700) and the violence is escalating with 230 protestors killed yesterday.

And you say there is no support for this? The Syrian embassies in Egypt and Kuwait were torched, the one in Berlin was broken into. Protests are around the Syrian embassy in London and in Washington. Turkey has mobilized troops on the border and is protecting the refugees coming over. The Arab League has called for Assad's removal. In fact, the ONLY countries that don't support this move are the one's with military ties to the regime and China. And to those who think Hezbollah is controlled from Damascus, well think a bit farther east if you want to know who's really in charge.

But why Syria and not other places? Here's where it gets subjective for many. I believe however, the blatant disregard that Assad has for the well-being of his population (already under sanctions for 7 months now), the disproportionate measures he uses against his people (tanks?) as well as the overwhelming support from other neighboring nations (and if you think Turkey wouldn't mind Assad gone, then why don't you listen to Erdogan's speeches.) and the fact that the suppressed people don't have any representation in the government are all reasons that I say Syria over other countries.

To those who say we can't afford it. Do you think Kenya and Ethiopia can afford to keep thousands of troops in Somalia? No, they're poorer than any western nation and the funds would be better spent elsewhere, but it's the right thing to do. The people in Somalia are/were (depending on exactly where) being oppressed by Al-Shabab and it was the right thing to do to help them, because it alleviates human suffering and helps stabilize the region.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
goldfinger, answer me this: do you think what's going on in Syria is a civil war, or just the big bad Syrian government slaughtering defenseless civilians willy-nilly?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Feb 12 UTC
"Likewise, you shouldn't make the mistake of supporting yet another war because it's cloaked in the rhetoric of good intentions. Why Syria, and not any of the dozens of other regimes that kill their own people? That's the question you should be asking. Be careful not to get caught up in someone else's mysterious agenda because the newsreaders they control are suckering you into a particular advocacy."

The West currently does not want to go to war. Therefore I am not supporting some war that has ulterior motives, because there are no ulterior motives. Indeed, there probably will be no intervention precisely because there is no other reason to go in (unless a proxy war starts as I've said).

Why Syria? Because it is getting worse and worse, other crimes are more subtle, less often, and less blatant. There is also less consensus around them, whereas few defend Assad at this point.

"The Halabja Kurds were real, as were the Shi'ites Saddam was hanged for killing. So were all the people prince Uday chopped up. These were all justifications for the war. In fact, the humanitarian reasons were trumpeted a bit more than the national security reasons as I recall (probably because the latter were completely ridiculous on their face)."

Please see my clarification re: Iraq, seems you didn't understand it the first time through.

"There are a heckuva lot of assumptions here, which only the hindsight of history written in another 50 years may be able to prove or unravel - maybe not even then. And the Somalia I I remember was in 1992-93, and it wasn't pretty. You may've seen a certain Hollywood movie about it. Fortunately, for all his faults, Clinton knew when to cut his losses and get out of a bad situation."

No, I know exactly what happened in Somalia, and though it was badly handled, the worst of all aspect of its handling was our pullout. Going in was not a mistake.

My point there was to differentiate *kinds* of conflicts. Some are more humanitarian - Libya, Kosovo, Somalia, etc. Some may have humanitarian justifications, but are not actually the same. Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia/Georgia, etc.

What's going on in Syria was a slaughter of defenseless civilians willy-nilly and is becoming more and more like a civil war as the patient opposition starts to get sick of being shot down for going to funerals and protesting their government.

Look I understand there's a lot of propaganda out there but get a grip man. Killing is wrong, you can't dress that up.

Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Feb 12 UTC
"To those who say we can't afford it. Do you think Kenya and Ethiopia can afford to keep thousands of troops in Somalia? No, they're poorer than any western nation and the funds would be better spent elsewhere, but it's the right thing to do. The people in Somalia are/were (depending on exactly where) being oppressed by Al-Shabab and it was the right thing to do to help them, because it alleviates human suffering and helps stabilize the region."

This greatly.

Yes, everyone knows humanitarian interventions can affect the balance of power in your favor so on etc. But that doesn't mean they are suddenly stripped of their moral implications.
@Tolstoy

I think that it is turning into a civil war, but it currently is not one. The protestors armed themselves so they could protect themselves while protesting. Read the some stories on the Arab League monitors, and you'll hear them repeatedly quote both Syrian security troops (low ranking) and civilians saying that the "armed extremist groups" or whatever Assad is calling them started out as people defending other protestors. It has since escalated towards civil war because Assad would not give people the right to protest.
Heres the deal. I believe people are dying, being killed. Its a war over there, and frankly we should not be the world police. The West has charged head long into too many of these conflicts. Truth of the matter is that China and Russia are dying for the west to get involved with this one too. We fight these wars using money and lives and who benefits? Free riders, Iran, Iraq, China. Syria is not our Ally now, they will not be our ally later, we do not have a dog in this fight time to let the Arab League deal with it.

The Blood is not on the world's hands, the blood is on Assad's hands, we have no obligation to take part in another intervention that will cost us a great deal and only help our rivals.

Its time for a new foreign policy, hopefully the people on the top see that.
*Iran, Russia, China
redhouse1938 (429 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
@Tolstoy, yes, the guy was an eye doctor and whenever I see his head I just can't picture that head making ruthless decisions. Other than Khadaffi's, the Kim family's, Mubarrak's. This Assad guy has something of a manipulation hanging around him. I believe he's more being manipulated than manipulating, with the final result: the president of a country effectively killing his own people, being no different.
I still don't see what the big deal about Syria is. I find North Korea and some other situations much more urgent. The US tried to "help" the Arab world and failed. They should walk on their toes there a bit I say.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
05 Feb 12 UTC
"and frankly we should not be the world police"

Why not? You must at least agree that there should *be* a world police, and if the UN is failing in that regard, something must be done.

The Arab League is a good way in I think.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
05 Feb 12 UTC
@Thucy. Yeah. let the Arab Club solve this one how is it a problem for the US/the west?
Here's my thought.

Throughout history, there have been instances where a country has reached global hegemony. As global hegemon, it was their duty, and indeed in the world's best interests for them to act as a world police force in the global commons, to protect the interests of people. Greece, Rome, the Mongols, the Mughals, Spain, Great Britain, and now the United States have reached the position of global (or regional) hegemon. Don't look at what these countries did on the way to hegemony, but look at how they instilled peace onto the regions they oversaw. It was their duty to do so. Pax Romana, Pax Britannica, etc. Each of these nations oversaw a time of peace a prosperity when the world collectively moved forward. Even the Mongols kept bandits off the trade routes and stopped feuding between the princes they ruled over. In aggregate, there was less death in the world due to these "global police forces."

Now you may point that each of these powers failed due to over-extension, because they were the global police force. I disagree. I believe the rise of other powers is a natural thing, and power can be a zero-sum game, so as one's power increases, another must decrease. It is a cycle that cannot be stopped.

That said, the U.S. Is currently the global hegemon. In twenty years or so, we will be matched by China and the world will fall into a similarly stable bi-polar power region. This will be the case until the U.N. develops its capabilities to become the global police force.

We must stop thinking about ourselves in terms of countries and races, but in terms of one race, the human race. Syrians are dying and we are doing nothing to prevent it, so yes, the blood is on all of our hands. The western countries and the Arab countries are doing what they can do short of military intervention, but it is Russia and China who are keeping anything productive from happening. If there were not killings, but still mass protests and riots, then I would agree with Russia's proposal, but the situation is not so. Tanks and artillery shelled the city of Homs yesterday. Over 200 died. Something must be done, and quickly, before the country descends too far into civil war, as Libya did.

On a side note, I 'd like to mention two things. Libya is how it is due to the tribal nature of the country's population. Right now there's a standoff since each tribe is vying to get more power in the new government. Syria is not tribal and thus would be a different outcome. Leading to my second thing, which is due to the sectarian nature of this conflict, Syria will end up like Iraq. I feel sorry for the Alawite and Christian populations in the country, because Assad created this conflict along sectarian lines. It didn't start out sectarian, but due to the totalitarian nature of the state, the structure of its military command, etc. he made it into a Sunni vs. all minorities battle, which is very sad. The whole Middle East is sad when you think of the amount of diversity it has lost in the last 60 years

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