Thucy, it would certainly be fun to do, even if you aren't the most qualified :)

And either way, I'm with Thucy, assume it's a capital G, "WHAT IF" he killed himself?

God can't die..........He is Life.......Is it was possible wed all dissapear because we are part of him.

Ah, so you left the faith because you weren't 'moralized', so to speak. You picked sex over God. Now you're here, suggesting that God could have died. And for what? Because you'd rather have sex with your girlfriend?

There's a parable about this in the Bible. It's called the parable of the sower. Some will will fall among thistles. They will grow quickly for the Lord, but the wealth and pleasures of this life will choke it away.

BrightEyes - The "infinitely perfect" quote you mentioned was explained in the rest of the paragraph without any biblical references that I saw anywhere.

Thucydides - If God created a god who then created some stuff, and the god dies, then that is certainly possible and I am not really that worried about it.

BrightEyes - I think there is a reason Thucydides dropped the capital G because that argument was going nowhere. Essentially, if God is God with a capital G, then by definition, He can't die. If He could die, then He is not God.

nola, think for a second. Where are you getting your information from? THE BIBLE

Where else does it say God exists?

Nature. Look at yourself. Think deep thoughts. Connect with the Almighty One.

nola, if God was exactly the way you're picturing him, except he can actually die, then he would only just be a god yes? If that were the case, would you abandon him? Can the Judeo-Christian God not have done all the things he has done without being unable to kill himself? So let's say he's the same God, he created heaven and earth, sent his only son down, and so on, but he can actually kill himself. Would you uncapitalize him for this triviality? Let's say an actual God exists who created the Judeo-Christian god, but is unknown because he does not concern himself with us. Who is worthy of worship? The actual God for living up to your philosophical standards of what constitutes a God with a capital G, or the Judeo-Christian god of your Bible who is responsible for all the blessings and woes in your life?

Now, to return to the original question but accepting your dodges so far, what happens if the Judeo-Christian god did indeed kill himself?

BrightEyes - I read the article I posted. Could you please tell me a single place in the first section in which the Bible is cited or in some way used as evidence? If not, you have not really argued anything other than to say "You cited the Bible" as though that means something in this discussion.

Also, if you want to know about the existence of God, here is another article on that:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608b.htm
The first section again argues from a philosophical rather than theological position.

Finally, the question itself for this topic assumes the existence of God, so, for purposes of this question, God is assumed to exist.

@Chrispminis

Considering all the things he's done and all the things he has promised we can answer the original question. No, he has not killed himself. But we cannot rule out that he doesn't have the ability to kill himself, like you say.

The question is irrelevant because he won't. Since he won't, therefore he can't. This is all considering he won't or hasn't. We can make an educated guess that he hasn't or can't because of all the things he's done. But the question remains if he did all these things. There's also the question if there really si a God.

Chrispminis - If God is who you said he might be, then he is not omnipotent, just a really great and powerful guy (or maybe not so great because he is not perfect and infinite, so who knows?). In this capacity, he is no greater (outside that he might have a bigger stick) than the Greek gods, Roman gods, or any other gods to this effect. I would say that a god such as this is as worthy of worship as Zeus, Jupiter, or any other of that crowd.

Also, it is pretty late here in the eastern US, so I have to get headed to bed. Nothing like an interesting discussion to end the evening.

nola: It does mean something. You are assuming that your God exists that way that you say he does, which clearly came from the bible. Even if you are right that there is a God, there could be another description of him that doesn't match the bible's description in which he could kill himself.

And you are assuming that God cannot kill himself, which is not a necessary definition of God.

Lol.

Well guys, I think all they're going to give us is:

"He wouldn't. He just wouldn't"

or

"He can't, he just can't" "He hasn't, he just hasn't." etc.

Not the intent of my question.... but okay.

Anyway, Zaza, in response to:

"Ah, so you left the faith because you weren't 'moralized', so to speak. You picked sex over God. Now you're here, suggesting that God could have died. And for what? Because you'd rather have sex with your girlfriend?

There's a parable about this in the Bible. It's called the parable of the sower. Some will will fall among thistles. They will grow quickly for the Lord, but the wealth and pleasures of this life will choke it away."

I am actually raised in the church. Had numerous "renaissances" of belief, even two while I was what you might call "aware." (Post 12 or so years old).

However I really now that this was folly. To me it is stupid to believe so strongly in something that you can have no knowledge about. But like I said, I feel the same way about other "facts," the facts of science and of the "fallen world" included.

So I am well versed in two worlds. I have read the bible. I am aware of the beliefs of atheists, and science, etc. Both have elaborate constructions, and both seem true if you do not seriously expose yourself to other points of view.

However when you think more broadly you come to realize that it's just a roll of the dice.

Pascal's Wager is ludicrous for this reason: It does not encompass every possibility. He ignores the possibility that God might actually send every Christian to hell, and every atheist to heaven. We do not have to know why that is the case, we just have to acknowledge that it is possible.

With that in mind, there is no way to know what is the right thing to believe. So, the best thing to do is to take the advice of the author of Ecclesiastes:

"So I recommend having fun, because there is nothing better for people in this world than to eat, drink, and enjoy life. That way they will experience some happiness along with all the hard work God gives them under the sun."

(Chapter 8 verse 15)

So yeah I do what I want and try to live right. And that does include many things that mainstream christians would call sin. I am sorry, but they are not wrong. Accepting gays? Not wrong. Loving and making love to my girlfriend? Not wrong. Say it's wrong if you want but you have no more basis for that than I do.

Assumption is a nasty thing, is it not?

Basically, at the end of the day, if you're not a skeptic, you're a dogmatist.

And screw dogma lol

Zaza, you're right to say we cannot know if he cannot kill himself. And right after you say it's irrelevant because God won't kill himself, it seems you also accept that you cannot know for sure that God won't kill himself. Which makes sense, because after all, how could you know his will? I'm not sure what you mean by your educated guess. Are you saying that he hasn't or can't kill himself based on all the things he's done? Why would he have to not be able to kill himself to do the things he's done? And of course there is the question of God's existence, but I would like to continue the discussion under the assumption that he does exist. From my point of view, there are naturalistic explanations for most phenomena including the wealth and beauty of nature, such that if a God exists, he need not have existed or interfered to explain the universe. In such a case, if God died, then we would not notice any difference.

nola, that may be, except that this is the real god in the sense that this one is responsible for creating heaven, hell, and earth, and is the one that judges you upon your death. He created all that you know, and is responsible for all the good and bad of the world and of your life. Zeus and the others of that crowd were not real, they were false gods. The only caveat is that while this god is indeed the god of the Bible he can kill himself and he is not God in the ultimate sense. This does not make his death a less significant question, no? So what happens when he dies?

Okay. I want to stay on the hypothetical that I posed for fun:

When you die, (if he was dead), what would happen?

Maybe you'd go up to heaven, but it's run solely by the angels, and it's gradually turning to chaos? Hahaha.

Or maybe Satan just goes nuts on all of it and took over.

"However when you think more broadly you come to realize that it's just a roll of the dice.

Pascal's Wager is ludicrous for this reason: It does not encompass every possibility. He ignores the possibility that God might actually send every Christian to hell, and every atheist to heaven. We do not have to know why that is the case, we just have to acknowledge that it is possible."

I'm a skeptic as much as you are. I've thought deeply about the same questions you have. I came to the conclusion that 1) there is a God and 2) he loves me.

God gave me the die and told me to roll a one for 'God's only begotten son...' John 3:16. Would he lie to me about that? Some might say, "Well, that depends on whether he actually is who he says he is. Mrhrrm bah humbug." But the truth is that God is not a liar. There are a lot more evil ways he could go about sending everyone to Hell. God is an extremist, and I'll [put money on] (whoops, replace that with) [put my soul on] God sending his Son to die on the cross for me instead of hating my being even though he created me.

@Chrisp

Yes, a deist would like to think God killed himself. However, I'm not a deist.

Zaza, I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you're saying. Why would a deist like to think God killed himself? Deism is the sort of vague belief that a God does exist and has created the universe but he does not concern himself with human affairs. It's more the belief in the philosophical creator God. I'm not sure why a deist then would like to think God was dead...

Maybe God killed itself about 13.8 billion years ago... and we (as parts of God) are part of a multi-billion year arc of splattered God-brains emanating from the instant of the fateful act. So many of us believe they "feel" the presence of God... maybe that is a memory... a ghost image... an echo. If you put a shotgun barrel in your mouth and pulled the trigger perhaps there would be momentary confused fragments of thought in those brain cells as they used up the last bits of oxygen at their disposal... unconnected to the other brain cells - but dimly aware of a larger connection (but failing to realize that the connection is lost).

Technical point mentioned one page one: can God kill himself?
If He is almighty, of course he could! There's no limit to his power.

In answer to the actual question asked in the description: assuming by "God," we are referencing the Christian God (I didn't bother reading the rest of this thread, but it seems to vary exactly who everyone is talking about), Christians would deserve to be pittied above all other people (I Cor. 1:15). No Last Day, no Resurection, no defeat of death.

@Thucy:
Don't allow red herrings! Stick to the subject!

Yes indeed. That would suck very much.

But seriously what do you guys think would happen when you died if this were true that God killed himself.

@dexter morgan
just what you said is crazy haha. and i don't mean crazy as in ridiculous and get out of here, i mean that's crazy ha.

dexter, that's actually a beautiful and haunting idea. I have no doubt that you could extract a quality short story out of the concept, or perhaps better yet, a surreal painting. The mental image is so vivid to me. I can just imagine a painting with Jesus on one end with a gun pointed at his head and the rest of the painting opposite the gun splatters to form the universe with spiral galaxies and whatnot. Tell me it's an original idea! I'm very much impressed right now.

@ Dexter- that is actually an awesome idea for a story or something, like Chrispis said.

@ the rest of this topic- lol

@ tmg996: "God said he would always help us when we need it."

Well, he lied about that one, didn't he? What about all the innocent people who did in the Tsunami in south east asia a couple of years ago. Did he help them?


@ tmg996: "and its called the BIBLE or aka GODS WORD"

If the bible is god's word, how come it's been re-written so many times? What about all the New Testament apocrypha? Which version is the correct one? How does god expect us to know which edition is correct?


@ tmg996: "i dont like it when people question God"

Ah, blind unreasoning faith. If we don't question commonly-held views, how can we be certain that they are right?


@nola2172: "If there is a god (lowercase) somewhere, then sure, he can die. No big deal. However, because his existence is not eternal, then he would require a God (uppercase) to have been created."

Who created God then?


@Zazazaza....:

"Ah, so you left the faith because you weren't 'moralized', so to speak. You picked sex over God. Now you're here, suggesting that God could have died. And for what? Because you'd rather have sex with your girlfriend?"

I'd pick sex over God any day. Sex is great fun. God doesn't exist. Why would I pick something non-existent over something great?

@ Thucy: " it is stupid to believe so strongly in something that you can have no knowledge about"

Yup. Thucy +1