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tmg996 (147 D)
10 Apr 10 UTC
Cheating?
its a anon no chat gunboat and i believe france germany and austria are cheating gameID=26275
22 replies
Open
5nk (0 DX)
10 Apr 10 UTC
Live WTA Gunboat JOIN
2 replies
Open
Mack Eye (119 D)
10 Apr 10 UTC
New game - By-Tor vs. Snow Dog (3 day turns, 110 pt bet)
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26288
0 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
04 Apr 10 UTC
FAO Everyone: DO NOT post accusations in the forum.
Do not post accusations in the forum. Ever. Under any circumstances.
Email [email protected] instead.
This is a rule that should just enforce itself without any effort, but sadly not. Don't be surprised if I start removing points for doing this, it is exceedingly unhelpful.
66 replies
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S.E. Peterson (100 D)
10 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Live Gunboat in 1 hour (40 point bet)
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26275
3 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
10 Apr 10 UTC
gunboat in 30 minutes
13 replies
Open
shadowlurker (108 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
live press game. no cheats plain fun join-up!
lets try and get pros beginners and intermediates all in one game eh?

gameID=26274
6 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Live Gunboat
gameID=26264

No NMRs please!
25 replies
Open
Octavious (2701 D)
08 Apr 10 UTC
Race, Racism and Racists
A comment on another thread got me thinking. Someone on another thread had been called racist for expressing anti-German opinions. Is this really racism, or just jingoism?

Also why on earth is it the fashion in the US to classify those of Spanish decent as another race? Living in the south west of England I've always thought of Spaniards as white... very foreign, yes, but still white. Using the US system I've been living in a multi racial familiy without ever realising it!
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The Czech (40297 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
What a bunch of bunk. The human race is the superior race. I defy anyone on the planet to dispute it.
Hunter49r (189 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Ants > Humans. They are the real rulers of the world. :D
Hunter49r (189 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
lol, at Jimmy the Greek. What a dumb thing to say, regardless if it is true or not. A TV announcer has to mantain at least some semblance of political correctness.

[and being only 20, yes I had to look it up. :( ]
TBDbloonsTD (100 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
ants are far superior to humans they all work for the same cause keep the queen and the colony thriving
taylornottyler (100 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
sounds like communism imo
Hunter49r (189 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
so all the Obama supporters should agree with me!




lol, I'm kidding. ;-)
Chrispminis (916 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Hm. I'm going to leave this here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/373742939/Race_Evolution_Behavior_by_J_Philippe_Rushton_2nd_ed_2000.pdf.html

It's a 50 page pdf, an abridged version of a very controversial book which applies science to racial issues. I think it's a necessary read for liberals and it might challenge their point of view somewhat. The rapid share only allows ten downloads before I have to re-upload it, but I'll be surprised if 10 people are willing to read 50 pages. =P

That said, I'd like to hear your opinions on this subject. In my mind, many liberals have trouble accepting conclusions like this because of one simple idea... that people have to be equal in order to be treated as equals. For me personally, it doesn't matter that there could be differences in averages of whatever groups because it is simple ethical imperative that people should be given equal treatment and not judged based on the average of the groups to which they belong.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
I still can't believe I started a thread with the sole intent of hearing some stories of how the Wars affected families and affect us today, and in so doing asking what Linus did in the Peanuts cartoon, "What Have We Learned?"...

And the main by-product of it all has been a discussion about racsim.

I guess if we've learned anything, its that we've learned nothing.

Sort of a downer... but then Plato's Socrates in the dialogues always insists that he knows nothing and then gains understanding through inquiry... so I suppose if we've learned nothing, perhaps then we SHOULD be inquiring on these matters...
Not to beat a dead horse Obi, but....

You started a thread expressing your OPINION about American opinion. You were basing this opinion on your perceptions only, which were colored, prejudiced, by your own experience.

What people reacted strongly to was that you believe Americans are inherently anti-German. This does not , in and of itself, make you a racist (or whatever the term for a bias against an ethnicity is). However, when you state your opinion AS FACT that Americans have a trait (of anti-German kneejerk reaction), and you get a bunch of Americans disagreeing with you, and you never acknowledge 'You know what, perhaps I am wrong that Americans are generally anti-German', how did you exactly expect that thread to go?
Corwin (368 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
@Chrispminis: The author of the book seems to be part of a hate group, and his science seems to be politcally motivated. It does not mean he is all wrong, but it certainly makes me wary of what he says. Many science articles have been published regarding the impact of the environment and/or genes on intelligence. Some emphasize the importance of genes, others the importance of environment. However there is no clear cut answer. Scientists are not even sure where the "intelligence genes" could be located.
@Hunter: I did not know him. I looked his name up. It does not matter if he ranks Asians before the Whites. Once you start ranking people based on the color of their skin, you open a very dangerous door.
"Once you start ranking people based on the color of their skin, you open a very dangerous door. "

I'm not sure that is true. If you show someone a picture of two men, one black, one white, with the same physique and ask 'Which one is faster?' Given no other information and without the ability to ask questions, and being forced to answer, I would assume more people will choose the black guy. Is that racist? Yes. Is that true? I'll say probably, though I know someone will come along behind me and dispute that.

Is it dangerous? Possibly. But is it natural to think that? Yes, I believe it is.
SteevoKun (588 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Prejudging is natural and necessary for survival, and when applied intelligently tends to be at least somewhat accurate.

Hate is a different story. As long as prejudging is based on hate it's plain silly at best, but if it's based on reality it can be quite useful.
Steevo, I don't quite get what you mean there. If I say 'I've learned over the years that Asians are stupid.' In theory, that's not based on hate, but based on my experience of Asians. So that's useful?
Corwin (368 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
@Dingleberry: For the longest time people thought the Earth was flat. Was it natural to assume it was true based on what could be observed? Probably. Was it right? No. That's what science is all about: to understand beyond appearances. To put people in little boxes is convenient, and it does not hurt the brain cells, but it does not help us understand the complexity of human nature.
Corwin,
I'm not sure what you are getting at. My response was to your quote "Once you start ranking people based on the color of their skin, you open a very dangerous door. " I don't need to understand complexity to assume that a black guy, all other things being equal, is probably faster than me. Proving WHY that is may in fact be dangerous - proving he has superior muscles or something of that nature opens the door to eugenics and selective breeding. Acknowledging that observation is dangerous? You can't stop people from thinking.

I'm not sure how your last post affects anything.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
09 Apr 10 UTC
"one simple idea... that people have to be equal in order to be treated as equals. "

I do take serious issue with this idea.
People are not equal, whether they are brothers, identical twins, or different skin tones.

Women are not equal to men, but they deserve to be treated equally, they deserve equal opportunity - and thus they will excell or fail at their own pace and achieve whatever they do. Fair equal treatment before the law, and equal educational opportunities for all are truely global goals which i believe in. (not to mention economic opportunities...)
Corwin (368 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
@Dingleberry: I interpreted your previous post as saying it was OK to rank people based on the color of their skin, therefore their appearances. I was just saying it is easy, convenient for many people, but not right. To assume from appearances is the opposite of thinking.
Corwin,
Using my previous example, you have a black guy and a white guy of equal builds and you know nothing else about them. I say 'Pick the winner of a race. If you lose, I kill you.' Would you randomly choose?

Or if I told you behind the curtain, there is a 30 year old random black man and a 30 year old random Japanese man. Who is taller? Choose right or die.

Would you make a random guess? Or perhaps, as much as it pains you, an educated guess based on your experience and the stereotypes you have picked up?
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
How about this:
There are two guys behind a curtain... one is a white guy from Oklahoma City and the other is a mixed race guy from San Francisco. I am asked which guy is more likely to stereotype based on race. I pick the white guy from Oklahoma City. Am I a racist for doing that? :-)

The idea of picking someone behind a curtain is silly... obviously when you have virtually no information you still use the information you have (which is going to be rather biased and based on *perceived* averages of populations rather than the individuals)... how useful is such a thing in real life? I submit that you're going to learn more about the person in a one minute conversation (if you are open to it) than you "know" based on a lifetime of stereotyping. In your attempts to understand people, stereotypes based on race are a wall more than a bridge.
Dexter, I don't disagree with your last post. But to ignore or fail to acknowledge what humans would do when faced with my examples is living in a wonderland.
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
Another thing... Our perception as Americans of blacks is biased by the fact that African Americans are not a good cross-section of Africans - genetically or culturally - nor do they as a population only represent "blackness"... they also represent poverty, a legacy of being a hated minority, less educated as a population, poorer health/less health care as a population, etc. As far as genetics, the vast majority of the African American population came from the west African slave trade which consisted primarily of only a few ethnic groups. Africans, as a whole, have far more genetic diversity among their population than all other people's around the world combined. If you want to talk about what it means to be African, you'd better be prepared to split that up into several subgroups... otherwise you're simply basing your conclusions based on superficial similarity based on climate (dark skin, etc.) rather than actual genetic differences.
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
@Dingleberry, agreed. People will stereotype. It seems a rather obvious thing to posit. Perhaps I do not get what you are getting at.
Chrispminis (916 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
@Corwin, I'm not sure what hate group you're referring to... perhaps you could provide a link? I would say that when it comes to touchy subjects such as racial or gender differences, politically motivated scientists are more likely to shy away because it can often result in serious consequences to your career and reputation. To even broach the subject is risky, and this author has been the target of many threats to his person and his academic career as a result of his writing. Quite a few genes correlated with a couple points of IQ have actually been uncovered, and the fact that most intelligence genes have not been located doesn't change the fact that twin studies have pretty much validated the idea that there is a genetic basis for intelligence. This is actually recognized by most scientists, if not all. The real controversial issue isn't if intelligence is heritable or genetically determined... it's if there is a difference in IQ between averages of races and/or whether the question should even be posed.

orathaic, indeed. As a social progressive myself, I find it disturbing that many of my peers who share the same goals, that is, social equality, hold this absurd idea so close to them. It comes from a long standing liberal tradition of Blank Slate humanity whereby the failings of an individual ought to be attributed to the failings of society and that if we properly manipulate the environment, humans can be shaped to become anything. This leads to ridiculous notions like a male could be raised as a female and comfortably identify with the latter gender. Genetics, linguistics, and neuroscience have all shown that humans are not at all Blank Slates, but some people hold on to the radical idea that people must be equal to be treated equally that they will deny the science that clearly demonstrates that we are not equal. I personally believe that this confounded notion has set back much social progress.

dexter raises a very important point. Subsaharan Africans on their own are more genetically variable than the rest of the human race. This is rather simple observation from an evolutionary standpoint as for the most part of Homo sapiens history we were all Africans. However, it is unclear how much this variation is functionally variant considering that most Africans are subject to similar selection pressures of climate and local diseases while other races are subject to quite different climates and diseases.

Indeed, the most striking differences between races are probably in disease resistance (which as probably been the largest selection pressure in recent human history) and their adaptatations to climate. Nobody doubts the variability of disease resistance between Europeans and say, Native Americans. I mean history shows the disastrous effects. HG Well's 'War of the Worlds' was an allegory of British imperialism in Africa and just like the aliens, the British were often repelled by their immune systems unfamiliarity to African pathogens. Nobody even doubts that black skin is a result of a hotter climate with more sunlight, white skin is a result of a colder climate with much cloud cover, and yellow skin is a result of even colder climate but more sunlight that selected for more fat deposits which obscure the redness of blood vessels, leading to "yellow" skin. Is it any real surprise then that there are other differences between races?

I mean, people ought to realize that prejudice based on the average traits of the group to which they belong are of limited value. Indeed, they demean the value of individuals and merit. It's not just race that can be applied to show differences within groups, taller people generally have higher IQ's, fatter people generally have lower incomes, and men with greater facial hair growth have higher rates of criminality. The issue isn't so much that difference in averages exist, it's that some groups have been designated as "us" and others as "them".

Imagine a society stratified by facial hair growth, where people would point out that 5 o clock shadows had much higher rates of incarcerations. Perhaps many would scream that these people are 'facialists' and that the rates of incarcerations are clearly the result of judicial bias towards bearded men. Maybe they'd start up an affirmative action program whereby if your facial hair growth exceeds some number of mm a week then you qualify for special admission considerations. The example is absurd simply because people are not classifed in outgroups and ingroups based on facial hair groups, at least not on our planet, but comparable differences in averages are there.
Corwin (368 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
@Crispminis:
The link was in my previous post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Philippe_Rushton
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
I heard the other day on a science program that our genetic variability is less across our whole species than is found in an average chimp troop. (The reason cited for this uniformity is a near-extinction event that apparently occurred about 70,000 years ago where we were down to less than 2,000 individuals).
A science program you say?
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
@Dingleberry, I can't remember what specifically. Recently I saw a Bill Moyer interview of Jane Goodall - it could have been in that. I've also come across two or three NOVA-like programs regarding human evolution in the last few months. If it was a website I would have made a link for it so I could still have the reference... as it is I don't have the reference.
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
ah - here we go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
...though that doesn't mention the comparative genetic variation between chimps and humans... ...it probably was from Dr. Goodall (after all, she's the chimp expert)
Chrispminis (916 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
That's really interesting dexter. I've read about this before. The wiki article you linked to does later mention that the "population of the Eastern African chimpanzee,[36] Bornean orangutan,[37] central Indian macaque[38] and all tiger,[39] and the separation of the nuclear gene pools of eastern and western lowland gorillas,[40] all recovered from very low sizes around 70,000-55,000 years ago." Does the comparison still hold despite a chimpanzee population bottleneck as well?

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101 replies
TeethofFury (100 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Join this business Live game NOW
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26271
0 replies
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Chrispminis (916 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Net Neutrality
Comment on this recent development:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/technology/07net.html?scp=2&sq=comcast&st=cse
2 replies
Open
klokskap (550 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Live Ancient Med- starts at 7:54 EST
gameID=26272

Not Anon, Gunboat
2 replies
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airborne (154 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Honestly...
inside
15 replies
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lovehate32 (124 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Can anyone tell me..
How to file a complaint on someone using two names in one game?
5 replies
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Happymunda (0 DX)
09 Apr 10 UTC
WORLD WIDE GAME (pot=10per person 1 day phases)
gameID=26265
JOIN IT IS FUN
0 replies
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Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
09 Apr 10 UTC
live gunboat
join now: gameID=26259
8 replies
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lovehate32 (124 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
live game starting in 10
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26261
0 replies
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yamchagoku1 (161 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
New World Diplomacy
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26038
The link is included. This is a game of WHOLE world diplomacy. It is open and needs only a few more players
0 replies
Open
Azralynn (898 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Live Gunboat ~20min
1 reply
Open
RStar43 (517 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
FridAY MORNING
one more player 6 minutes
1 reply
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jdog (100 D)
08 Apr 10 UTC
Ancient Med
Why does no one want to play the Ancient Med map?
9 replies
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iMurk789 (100 D)
08 Apr 10 UTC
favorite albums?
name some of your favorite albums, just because i miss these forums and i like talking about music.
42 replies
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Gary (2194 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
New Live Games
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26252 - starting in 30 mins

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26254 - starting in an hour
0 replies
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denis (864 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
3 more needed in 3 hours!!!
Join!!!!!!!!¡!¡!¡!¡

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26211
0 replies
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Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
07 Apr 10 UTC
Longest game with nobody out?
gameID=22909

I expect someone will have a longer one but i'm quite impressed by everyone still alive, albeit some in worse shapes than others, in 1909. I'm not talking about the games as yes it is ongoing so no tactics please. Post other games which come close to beating this though :P
14 replies
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Mindtech (100 D)
07 Apr 10 UTC
Saying goodbye
The time has come for me to leave this site, and here's why.
61 replies
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hopsyturvy (521 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
AAR - Live! Guboat!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26238 - Gü-boat?

All I want to say is: Germany! Why?
4 replies
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Panthers (470 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
All we need is 7 people! Live Gunboat!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26245

Actually 6 because I joined my own game...........
7 replies
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Panthers (470 D)
09 Apr 10 UTC
Live Friday Gunboat!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26237

Starting in 2 hours!
8 replies
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DollyDagger (0 DX)
07 Apr 10 UTC
Chaos variant game
At Oli's Diplomacy variants we are about to have our first "Chaos" game but we need 12 more players. In "Chaos" every SC is its own country so we have 34 players. It will involve a ton of diplomatic skill and much backstabbing and alliances so please join!

Here's the game: http://oli.rhoen.de/webdiplomacy/board.php?gameID=696
4 replies
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