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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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RiffArt (1299 D)
15 Jul 08 UTC
Support Question
The rules on the site state that support can be given to HOLDING units.

However, normally I believe support can be given to any unit that DOESN'T MOVE. (see http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/rulebooks/2000AH4th.pdf)

So if I order two units to support each other and one is attacked (and the attack is supported), what will happen? The site rules suggest that the attack will succeed (can't support a unit that wasn't holding), however normally it wouldn't do so.

Please help. (Soon).

Thanks in advance.
2 replies
Open
Kent C. Tugood (483 D)
15 Jul 08 UTC
Spain Movement Question
In this game: http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4222, last night I decided to move my Portugal Fleet to South Coast Spain, while moving the fleet at North Coast Spain to Portugal. At the time, I didn't think of it as a bounce since both fleets were not directly crossing movement, but it was interpreted by the adjudicator as bounces, which makes sense when I woke up this morning. I just want to make sure that it is actually a bounce.
2 replies
Open
Shino (113 D)
15 Jul 08 UTC
New game called E3
come join me to celebrate e3 WOOT WOOT 50 pt kicker fee
0 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
15 Jul 08 UTC
Winner takes all game
Is anyone interested in a winner takes all game, pot of 60-120 points. If/When I have six names with emails either in profile or in the thread, I'll start a game and send joining links.
1 reply
Open
Iidhaegn (111 D)
15 Jul 08 UTC
Standard Format questions?
When you're looking at the chat screen on an individual game, is all the chat interaction supposed to show with or without scroll bars?
4 replies
Open
Pandora (100 D)
05 Jul 08 UTC
Pandora and Sicarius
we're going to quit for a bit, since we dont have reliable access to a computer, and we're both busy alot

we'll start again when we have more time

sorry for the cd

later boys
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kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
11 Jul 08 UTC
Pandora the companies don't pay for your shoplifting themselves, you of all people should realize they're not that generous..

They add the costs of the stolen products (they call it "shrinkage"), plus the costs of security cameras and guards, onto the price of the products they sell.
It's other consumers, like myself, who are paying for your shoplifting.

If you're doing it for a thrill or to impress your friends then okay, I'm sure you'll grow out of it soon, but don't pretend you're some kind of robin hood figure; you're only stealing from regular people like me.
Tucobenedicto (100 D)
11 Jul 08 UTC
Woooo, Kestas with the smackdown.
Pandora (100 D)
11 Jul 08 UTC
I dont see myself as a robin hood at all. I'm surviving not revolutionizing.

Thougha trickle down effect may exist, I'm not at all convinced that this has any significant impact at all. I feel the pros vastly outweigh the cons.
Besides if you want to bitch about injustice inflicted by the few on to the many, my taking a loaf of bread from the grocery store dumpster is a very poor place to start
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Jul 08 UTC
Why I love Shoplifting
From big corporations.

Nothing compares to feeling of greed, of self indulgence being achieved and limitation being escaped, that I feel when I walk out of a store with their products in my pockets. In a world where I haven’t worked to earn a piece of it, where I am expected to contribute my life to receive the contributions of others, where I am surrounded by a free market economy which will not accept my supreme authority, and which I am uncapable of understanding, which does not care for me when I act as a parasite to it, it is a way to take a piece of it that is not mine, to act against the Tom, Dick or Harry who doesn’t know me, but have an indirect effect on me.

It is an entirely different sensation that the one a feel when I buy something. When I pay something, I’m making a trade, I am not the sole benefactor from the agreement. I give up some of my labor, my time and my creativity (which could be better spent preaching on a diplomacy website) for a product or service that a member of the corporation has given up his time for too. Just as I don’t share my time with him, he under other circumstances wouldn’t share his with me. In a sense, we have a peer to peer relationship, but nobody is equal to me, so that is not right. Supermarkets know what constitutes a fair price- one that matches supply and demand, competition, but I don’t like paying for it. But when I steal, I don’t need to have a relationship of any kind, I don’t need to interact, I can reject other people, those who are worthless, useless, nothings compared to me.

Yes, everything is different when I shoplift, I am no longer giving to a person I don’t care about, the Tom, Dick or Harry looses his time to me, I can harm their welfare, lower their pay, increase whatever strife they may have. I am no longer feel that I cam being forced into an exchange, another of the type anyone has, now I am not a pathetic nobody, I am a pathetic nobody who is too lazy to work. I no longer work for my possessions, they no longer mean anything, have value in terms of what the cost me. Nothing costs me any more. In this and only this way, shoplifting gives me the possessions I want without myself having to make a sacrifice for them. Now somebody else sacrifices for me, all powerful, all wonderful me.

The shoplifter wins her prize by taking a risk, she doesn’t trade like for like. Instead she can risk being caught and costing people yet more. When others work and get a just reward, she takes that reward away from them, she gets a thrill from depriving others of their goods, depriving others of the chance to live well legally, whilst Tom, Dick or Harry is suffering from want of healthcare or food, she is enjoying taking yet more of that from them, this means, it is in many ways, more damnable.

Shoplifting is the refusal of equality of people. It is a denial that the shoplifter should have to work as much as Tom, Dick or Harry, that they are equal, it is a denial that when you have a delicious chocolate, the people who combined to make it should receive some reward, it is a denial that others can be equal to the self. It is the refusal of the capitalist system, that he who strives long hours, develops and uses his talents, works to increase them, deserves more than the person who does nothing, just sits, consuming, consuming, consuming.

Shoplifting says NO to all the profits of labor that are realized by the free trade economy. It is a way of amplifying the effects of low wages and lack of benefits that many corporation’s employee’s suffer, by reducing company profits. It is a refusal to pay a small amount for low quality products, made cheaply and so fairly poorly, although as well as can be given the price constraints, or make the choice to spend more on a high quality product that is less likely to suffer from breakage or wearing out. It is a way of amplifying the environmental damage that is a result of cutting costs to counter-act the cutting of profits from theft, a refusal to use large companies or small private businesses that are often harder to steal from. Those that offer the service and longevity of product if only would use them.

It is a refusal to fund the slaughter of animals that is natural to any omnivorous species, instead to force it to cut corners in animal welfare to cut costs, it is a refusal to understand that taking milk from a cow does not lead to the death of the cow, it is a refusal to allow migrant workers better pay. Shoplifting makes a statement about the shoplift: “I cannot be bothered to work like the majority of the decent people on this earth.”

The shoplifter is influenced by advertising in the same way as any other person, but whereas the normal person must consider for themselves whether or not they want this certain product the shoplifter may simply take it regardless. Thus she raises the price for the normal customer, without affecting the people who fund and produce the advertising campaigns.

Shoplifting is the most effective way to earn something from another’s labor, it simply directly steals the fruits of it. It cannot be construed as a protest, as it is clear the reason is greed. It is designed to go unnoticed, and manifests itself in a statistic. It only damages those without the power to stop it from damaging them. But then their lack of money damages everyone else, resulting a self-perpetuating cycle of increased hardship. It is worse than a boycott, since it does not make the point of view clear. It satisfies greed, and it does not help competition. It also means the shoplift doesn’t have to work. And because it puts nothing into the economy, it cannot give people the affluence to use the more expensive local store. It does general damage to all people across the globe, eventually including the shoplifter, for when the economy falters even the lowly criminal is hurt. She revels in her own damage to ordinary folk.

But does she not care about all those people who are directly affected by her actions, through the harm done to the store? No. She can claim that she is stealing from a non-human entity, she can be ignorant of the fact that when more money is available, unions can demand more, and through that power, the power of acting fairly together, threatening strikes, boycotts by a different name. Most modern corporations set aside money from shoplifters, but she doesn’t have to realize that that money doesn’t come from nowhere. This money comes from the pockets of Tom, Dick and Harry, because the shops realize that some people are too greedy to work for the rewards, and the lady shoplifter can claim she plays a role in society, although she needn’t mention a negative, parasitic one.

Shoplifting isn’t just a way to survive in a world of free fair trade of what things are worth for what they are worth, it is a way to do so in a way that causes pain for others, and limits their means of survival.

The shoplifter acts in a primitive, apish way, in a world where the free market has been shown to be superior, and thus has been adopted by the vast majority of people willingly, sometimes with people fighting, such as when in the civil wars in England people fought against the un-free trade caused by the Monach’s monopolies. The shoplifter needn’t care for that which she is unaware of.

To shoplift is to leave fairness, the idea that one man’s produce is equal to another’s, behind, it is to turn a world where it is what you can give that counts to what you can take, it is an effective way to turn on its head the basic thing that separates the man from the beast.
Pandora (100 D)
11 Jul 08 UTC
hahahahahahahaha
thewonderllama (100 D)
11 Jul 08 UTC
While intended to be humorous to some degree, he makes (as have others) points that you have disregarded without backing up your position. If you wish to debate the legitimacy of your arguments, you should properly respond to the points of others. You weaken your stance by stating unsupported opinions (e.g. "I'm not at all convinced that this has any significant impact at all. I feel the pros vastly outweigh the cons.") without giving reasoning that supports them. No one will take you seriously when you argue like that.

And no one said anything about you taking a loaf of bread from a dumpster, they spoke of shoplifting which would be the theft of a salable good. C'mon, you know that.
Croaker (370 D)
11 Jul 08 UTC
Its a matter of scale. You believe that you have freed yourself from the social constraints that govern your society. Remove the constraints of law and you would happily join in the looting. I am not comparing you to a janjaweed. I am pointing out that in societies where the rule of law is gone, the amoral do not work for the betterment of the whole, they steal and destroy what they cannot take.
flashman (2274 D(G))
11 Jul 08 UTC
"hahahahahahahaha"

Is that it Pandora?

Based on what I have read, I have a notion that Ghostmaker will make a bigger contribution to mankind in his lifetime than you will.

(Even if he misses out on the face-to-face game... ;) )
GuanShao (537 D)
11 Jul 08 UTC
Get the fuck out, hippies. seriously, no one cares if you can't afford the basic amenities, it doesn't make you better than anyone else.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
11 Jul 08 UTC
I'd still like Sicarius to inform me which Police department issued him his beating, and the details of said beating. I have my donation ready to send to this fine upstanding law enforcement division. Hopefully, the police matron wore her rubber gloves when she gave him the correction that his daddy never did. Those street people can be diseased.

Come on, 'fess up, Siccy Baby. There's more where that came from for you, at your current rate of development.
sean (3490 D(B))
12 Jul 08 UTC
nice debate up till the last two posts. pandora please dont respond to the last two childish posts with anger. stick to the subject at hand rather than let this thread like so many others descend into name calling and childish taunts.
@theGhostmaker & mapleleaf: lol
And when I say "lol," it means that I really am laughing out loud.

I read the book "Freakonomics" a few months ago. It presents the idea that Roe vs. Wade led to the unexpected drop in crime during the mid 90's. Less children were being born into homes where they would be neglected.
Now, I'm not saying whether or not I agree totally with abortion, but I was trying to think up ways we could eliminate waste products like Sicarius and Pandora from our society. Wouldn't it have been convenient if their parents had made that choice?
Jerkface (1626 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Pandora, it is my belief that you are contributing to the darkening of our world. Corporations can be beautiful cooperations between free men and women who freely choose to make exchanges. Your actions make doubt and fear grow in such free men and women. You contribute to the "inefficiency" of our system. The system exists to promote happiness and fulfillment and you seek to tear that down.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Satire and Parody can still make a serious point that must be addressed.
flashman (2274 D(G))
12 Jul 08 UTC
Most certainly.
Jerkface (1626 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Where's the satire and parody?
Cheleon (1153 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
"The system exists to promote happiness and fulfillment." !!!???

Which country is this, and how do I get a visa?
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Jerk, the parody was my long post, which mimicked the earlier post of Pandora.
flashman (2274 D(G))
12 Jul 08 UTC
Jerk is a rather unfortunate diminutive... ;)
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Yes. ;)
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Perhaps a demeaning diminutive?
WhiteSammy (132 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
i think its funny that this post went from pan and sic saying bye, in a somewhat cheerful mood, to everyone else pretty much telling them to get a life and stop taking from mine you pathetic waste of what should have been aborted human flesh
WhiteSammy (132 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
oh and ghost and guan you should get together and write a book called hippinomics and use the bullshit that sic and pan try to use as justification for their lack of respect for humanity's social organization and other people who, contrary to sic and pan, have the right to be called human let alone humane
flashman (2274 D(G))
12 Jul 08 UTC
Also note that both Sic and Pan were leaving games because they would not have internet/computer access...

Pan has actually started a new game since this thread was created.

She obviously lives in a real bummer of a country as far as communications are concerned...
aoe3rules (949 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
could we PLEASE end this thread already?
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
I think she lives in America from references to Wal-mart.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
But that is a guess.
WhiteSammy (132 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
maybe she lives IN wal-mart you know that way stealing would be easier
a_fuzzyduck (100 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
greats thread :*)
Pecks73 (453 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Hellooo?
Pandora = Sicarius. Same player.

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119 replies
Treefarn (6094 D)
14 Jul 08 UTC
Thoughts on draws in PPSC games
I was wondering what people's thoughts were on draws in PPSC games.
13 replies
Open
Worldbeing (1063 D)
14 Jul 08 UTC
Worldbeing's Return
Hello again all!
I'm back, and raring to go. (Interesting word, raring- derives from a form of 'rear', presumably in the sense of a rearing horse... but anyway).
Could someone give me a brief overview of what improvements (if any) have been made since I was last around, which I think was shortly after the introduction of the points system?
I must admit, I was astounded to find I was still ranked well within the top 100...it seems the good only get better and the others don't rise...
18 replies
Open
anlari (8640 D)
13 Jul 08 UTC
Warsaw Uprising
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_uprising

That caught me attention while I was in Poland - the way Stalin forced the Poles to rebel or be labelled as defeatists, then stopped his armies a few hundred meters away to let Germans crush them before moving in - Facing less of a defence in the city as well as preventing any future Polish resistance.. The bastard was a true diplomat.
6 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
14 Jul 08 UTC
Game thirty three and a third pis
Bet is thirty three and a third pi to the nearest integer(105). Winner takes all.
3 replies
Open
jpchewy01 (100 D)
14 Jul 08 UTC
Anyone Can Join
Join the game Anyone Can Join. bet is 5 points.
0 replies
Open
q93 (373 D)
14 Jul 08 UTC
Slow interface
Anyone else having major problems with the site. I'm having a hell of a time getting orders in. As manay games as I'm playing this will take me the full 24 hours just to get my orders in.
10 replies
Open
Cheleon (1153 D)
14 Jul 08 UTC
Draw request: Give Us Bubblewrap
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4418

Posted by Italy.
The other players France, Germany and Russia will confirm.
3 replies
Open
dearmore28 (527 D)
14 Jul 08 UTC
Pow Wow Draw Request
Kestas, Please draw this game Italy (pokemon trainer) should confirm shortly.
2 replies
Open
flashman (2274 D(G))
10 Jul 08 UTC
Face to Face Diplomacy...
A little news...
31 replies
Open
Vampiero (3525 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Duplicitous Tactics Draw
this is turkey asking for a draw.
soon france and russia should also post.
8 replies
Open
fr1988 (100 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
If YOU were accused of metagaming
Scenario: you put your time/efforts to play Diplomacy because you consider it rewarding and interesting. You disapprove metagaming, because in your opinion it comprimes the honesty/fun of the game (you believe everyone should start with same potential chances to win a game, then as game develops odds are going up or down).

In a particular game, you are playing Austria. You could have crashed Russia, but from previous games you learnt that, once Russia is gone, Turkey is a genie out of a box and the doom starts. So, instead of trying to destroy Russia, you let him stand as deterrent against Turkey.

Then Turkey accuses Russia and you of metagaming.

QUESTION: considering Turkey is an experienced player, at least according to his rank, what would YOU think?

a) Turkey is a smart, Machiavellian player. Using bogus complaints to move your focus away from the game. What a great player!

b) Turkey and Russia are up to something, and staging a fake disagreement. God saves me from allies, than I will take care of enemies :-)

c) Turkey is in immature player. He really believes what he says!

d) None of the above. Please enlighten me with your opinion!

In case this case falls in cluster "A", I will not add any additional message to the original ones. But I would love to know what you think about this.
22 replies
Open
alex_spro (284 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Question:
I am very new to this game, but from viewing the finished ones, it seems like Italy almost never wins? Also, it seems like Austria wins the most, followed by Turkey, Russia, England.
13 replies
Open
Rait (10151 D(S))
13 Jul 08 UTC
Kestas, pleas look at this
In the game http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4374&msgCountry=Germany

shouldn't the attack from STP to Barents Sea have failed by the rules?
3 replies
Open
Treefarn (6094 D)
13 Jul 08 UTC
Disbands when in CD
I thought the rule for disbands for a country in CD was the farther away from home SCs. I am currently in a game where Austria is in CD. At the end of Autumn, he had 2 SCs at Trieste and Vienna. He had 3 armies in Galicia, Albania and Trieste. Trieste was disbanded. Why?
4 replies
Open
QuiSxu92 (110 D)
13 Jul 08 UTC
Build later orders
I have requested to build later, does the option to build in Autumn automatically ask me? if what do I need to do... thanks in advance
1 reply
Open
lyriac (121 D)
13 Jul 08 UTC
a question from a newbie
the situation is like this:
I am playing france and i have an army in spain. i want to occupy portugal but this turn is sping 1902 in order to set portugal as a supply center does my army need to stay there for another turn? or my occupation in spring is just enaugh?
2 replies
Open
aoe3rules (949 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Viva la Vida
has anyone heard the song "Viva la Vida"? i was just thinking about it and realized it we could write a great diplomacy-related parody of it; i've already got a few lines:

"I used to rule the word,
fleets would move when i gave the word.
Now in the morning i scheme alone,
scheme with guys i used to own..."

"...Be my puppet, my sword and shield,
My figurehead in a foreign field.
For some reason i can't explain,
since i joined, there was never,
never an honest word,
Even when i ruled the world."

also, maybe someone here who can sing could post it to Youtube. or they might record it at the FTF game in the UK.
7 replies
Open
Sun_Tzu (2116 D)
13 Jul 08 UTC
Move should have worked.
In the game "New Trade" Russia had fleet GoB support Sweden to Baltic Sea and fleet Baltic Sea was supporting another move, but was unsupported. This should have displaced fleet Baltic Sea. But it didn't.
3 replies
Open
Mrlimmer (396 D)
13 Jul 08 UTC
The Magical Magic Game!
Join Now!
0 replies
Open
anlari (8640 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Facebook
I was wondering the facebook usage density here - If we all add each other as friends it might make it easier to communicate considering many of us shy away from posting e-mails on public forums. I'm Anil Ari.
5 replies
Open
RogueMcGyver (455 D)
13 Jul 08 UTC
Convoy Disruption?
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4265

Shouldn't my attack from GoB -> Baltic Sea stopped them from convoying an army to Livonia?

If not can someone explain to me why it did not?
3 replies
Open
KaaRoy (0 DX)
12 Jul 08 UTC
Just for Fun 1 - Low points game but the winner takes it all
As stated above... One winner, 6 losers.
0 replies
Open
flashman (2274 D(G))
12 Jul 08 UTC
anlari, you're back!
Do you now how many ways I have tried to contact you?
28 replies
Open
jpchewy01 (100 D)
12 Jul 08 UTC
New game
Join Empires of Europe-2! the bet is 5 points.
0 replies
Open
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