"As I said before, you're making my initial point. "

yes classically refutation is seen as supporting the original argument. Good strategy here.

@ Invictus: By "always", I mean until something is done about it. Their support financially, militarily, and in raw numbers stems from multiple nations, so there will be no shortage of new recruits to their cause. Convert or die helps too.

@semck I doubt it. When have you ever known the news media to restrain themselves from a "breaking story" out of decency? Nothing screams louder that these people (the terrorists) have something important to say than the fact that our media doesn't want us to hear it. Don't we as people have the right to judge for ourselves whether ISIS is making reasonable demands?

@YJ,

Actually, the news media fail to present primary sources all the time. And when it's one of their own? I totally think they'd do it. But if you're concerned, go find it online. I'm sure it's around.

"Nothing screams louder that these people (the terrorists) have something important to say than the fact that our media doesn't want us to hear it. Don't we as people have the right to judge for ourselves whether ISIS is making reasonable demands?"

Look how far the termites have gone. A death cult imposing medieval religious law on huge swaths of territory beheads a journalist and we're asking whether the mainstream media is covering up the group's reasonable demands. It's stunning.

I don't blame anyone for not trusting the American government, these days. Their legitimacy is low and getting lower. Sure, I agree about the ISIS video myself - it's not like you can't watch it. But why listen to their bile just for it's own sake? Terrorism is a symbol - it trades on fear. If you extinguish the symbol, which is fear, they are extinguished. Ergo, ignore them - they're the class bully who will never go away.

I don't mean of course to literally ignore them. I mean to ignore their terrorism - their attempts at mind control.

Just as indeed, I long ignored krellin's posturing but continued to engage him. Engagement, but not willing to play by their rules. Fearing ISIS is playing my their rules.

My memory is that you became almost hysterical about krellin's behavior on several different occasions. Am I wrong?

That's very good advice to give your son or daughter someday, but not of much use here.

The Islamic State is not just a symbol. It is a reality. They really are crucifying people and cutting people's hands and heads off. This is how they're administering the large territory they control. Ignoring them does nothing except make us falsely complacent.

@Yellowjacket

"Don't we as people have the right to judge for ourselves whether ISIS is making reasonable demands?"

What exactly are you imagining we are not being told?

So ISIS has been terrorizing Iraqi citizens killing them and a USA citizen gets killed. I understand what a travesty and damn I wouldn't ever support it but this has been going on for a while. Does anyone know whether ISIS did this as a direct threat to the USA or if it was incidental 'we are terrorist let's pull his head' off stuff

they very clearly goaded the US on in the video. It's still just propaganda

They executed him in response to the recent airstrikes and have vowed to attack the United States.

Due to their resources, an attack from them seems more likely than from other terrorists groups. They're selling oil. They captured gold bullion from the Mosul branch of Iraq's national bank. A few men with boxcutters changed the world. Imagine if they also had a billion dollars.

South Park season 7 episode 1 'I'm a little bit of Country' covers my feelings on this kind of stuff pretty well

@invictus @semck

"I don't mean of course to literally ignore them. I mean to ignore their terrorism - their attempts at mind control."

I understand but I personally like a strategic, covert hunt down of these guys. Not an invasion ass-f*** thing. Just maybe a little sneak in ass-f***. You know what I mean?

"What exactly are you imagining we are not being told?"

Sure, that's a fair question. I just saw a newscast today where we had 45 minutes of talking heads jabbering about all sorts of crap, but literally only one sentence was dedicated to what ISIS is actually claiming/demanding. I feel that news should be there to present facts, not interpretation. I want to know exactly what ISIS is saying/asking/demanding, from their own mouths, not how CNN wants to spin the story.

Have you tried a web search or two, YJ?

Yeah the news is all about ratings and drama but they put in a lot of time talking about the victims so they can use the excuse they're 'sympathizing' during their quest for ratings

lets kill them kill them all

Yes... YES Down with FOX. Down with CNN YESYESYES

They also beheaded a Japanese tourist recently

People ask me why I think Isis is in store for an epic collapse. Its because of this crap. They are an organization that relies on the support of allies, at the moment alienated Sunnis and ex-Saddam supporters. Yet instead of consolidating that support they impose incredibly strict shariah and lop off the heads of civilians. Eventually their allies will turn on them much like they did in Syria. The question is if there will be a force on the ground to take advantage.

and if you all haven't watched the vice series "The Islamic State" do yourself a favor.

I was about to post a link to that video. And I have to say, I had just the opposite reaction. Watching that made me think the Islamic State is nowhere near a collapse.

They are, in fact, consolidating support. They keep the power on and the water running. They maintain order. They indoctrinate children in "state" schools. If extreme cruelty that alienates the populace were all it took for regimes to implode then North Korea would have become a liberal democracy decades ago. The sad fact is that this death cult now is the government of upper Mesopotamia, and it has plenty of resources and (dirty secret) genuine popular support. Baring a politically impossible Western ground invasion they're going nowhere fast.

"Eventually their allies will turn on them much like they did in Syria."

I don't know what you mean here. The other, less crazy Islamist forces have been destroyed or totally sidelined by the Islamic State. It won the civil war within the civil war, and now rules a third of the country. How is that a point in favor of its collapse? If anything it shows the Islamic State's resilience.


" I just saw a newscast today where we had 45 minutes of talking heads jabbering about all sorts of crap, but literally only one sentence was dedicated to what ISIS is actually claiming/demanding. I feel that news should be there to present facts, not interpretation. I want to know exactly what ISIS is saying/asking/demanding, from their own mouths, not how CNN wants to spin the story."

As has been said, have you done any research of your own? At all? The Islamic State is very clear on what it wants. It wants to impose its brutal form of religious law. It wants to destroy anything that stands in its way. Ibrahim is almost Bond-villain like in the scope and simplicity of his vision.

This information can be found with a few key strokes.

The real thing to criticize the media for is continuing to equate the Islamic State with al Qaeda. Sure, this group is a direct descendant of the al Qaeda franchise in Iraq, but it has since broken off and, possibly, totally eclipsed the parent organization.

By continuing to present the Islamic State as an al Qaeda whelp, the media is carrying water for the president to say he doesn't need new Congressional authority for any action in Iraq. He'll say it's covered under the authorization of force that was passed right after 9/11. And thus another body blow is dealt to the idea that there are any checks on presidential war making powers.

Damn guys, this thread got all political and boring. Can we go back to complaining about the mods? Nobody has even mentioned bo yet.

It's very rare that I agree with Invictus, but that last point is right on the money.

Ever since presidents started calling wars as conflicts, police actions, fighting terrorism, and other terms Congressional support has only been requested for political support and additional funding. Eisenhower sent in advisors to Vietnam long before the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin resolution under Johnson where he waited for an incident to get support to increase the conflict.

It's a bit ironic that when Americans are held hostage in the Mid East, war mongering Republican presidents will buy their release and peace loving Democrats will attempt a military rescue even though they have failed.