@tendmote

it's a good watch just for some of the old footage (there are a few graphic scenes) but a lot of people mischaracterize it has a gun or anti-gun doc. It's more documenting the symptom of the issues at the time; poverty, racial tensions, stricter policing, etc.

@Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

"documenting the symptom of the issues at the time"

Yes, I gathered that from the summary. I expect a lot of that will resonate with what I remember, because we went from a neighborhood that was mostly black, to one that was seriously 100% white, which was weird even for me (I'm white.)

Anyway, thanks, maybe I'll post a review later.

Putin, did you read the article you linked? It talks about how North Korea would be the envy of many developing countries. That does not mean better healthcare than the US by any stretch. It also mentions malnutrition as a problem in North Korea. And it mentions that some of the key improvements being made in North Korea are due to funding from a joint program with capitalist South Korea.

"most of the items and conveniences we're all using are provided by for-profit companies who paid scientists to indulge their curiousity and invested in miniaturization."

Others have made this point, but for any invention that can be attributed to capitalism, I can find one that can be attributed to government or academia or simply inventors not concerned with personal wealth.

"That does not mean better healthcare than the US by any stretch."

The WHO is praising North Korea's immunization coverage, while the US is dealing with the return of polio, measles, and whooping cough. The WHO is praising North Korea's maternal care, while the US maternal mortality rate is abysmal. North Korea has 33 physicians per 10,000 people; the US has 27 physicians per 10,000 people.

"And it mentions that some of the key improvements being made "

Some of the key improvements, others are due to efforts North Korea has made by itself to increase food production. They make no mention of the economic blockade placed upon North Korea, which the United States doesn't have to deal with.

@abgemacht

"I can find one that can be attributed to government or academia or simply inventors not concerned with personal wealth."

I think that's fair. I was merely suggesting the idea of "legalizing corporate greed" is not the catastrophe that rojimy was implying.

US maternal mortality rate is abysmal??? North Korea's maternal mortality rate is 81/100k births vs. US rate of 21/100k. If the US rate is abysmal, what does that make North Korea's?

North Korea is an impoverished country under a decades-long economic blockade. America is the most resource-rich country in the world.

But do babies in North Korea get their daily recommended intake of Vitamin P33?

Hey, I'm not the one claiming North Korea has better health care than the US. Stop making ridiculous claims and you won't have to keep moving the crossbar.

I said they had better access, which is true.

I jest now, but when the revolution comes, I'll have enough Vitamin P33 from reading all this that my class credentials will not be questioned.

Funny.

Why is this one North Korean health care statistic relevant in the context of the never-ending shithole of suffering and government oppression that North Korea, on balance, is?

No, it is not. They have more healthcare practitioners per capita which is not the same thing as better access to health care.

Healthcare is free in the DPRK. It costs thousands of dollars to get basic services here.

"Why is this one North Korean health care statistic relevant in the context of the never-ending shithole of suffering and government oppression that North Korea, on balance, is?"

Why is access to basic healthcare and other social rights irrelevant in your mind when it comes to comparing government performance? We get glib dismissals of the suffering of people in poverty while you guys brag about being able to vote in elections between millionaires and billionaires.

@Putin33 I'm not saying that liberal, capitalist democracy can't do better; I just oppose your kick-over-the-table revolutionary attitude toward the liberal, capitalist democracy's deficiencies. Incremental improvements are more modest and more sensible. The idea that North Korea is a preferable outcome, on balance, is ridiculous.

"Incremental improvements" have been systematically dismantled over the past several decades, as countries decide they can no longer afford any welfare state worth the name and still compete in your wonderful capitalist global economy.

" The idea that North Korea is a preferable outcome, on balance, is ridiculous."

State socialism under conditions of American resources and security would be an astronomically preferable outcome when you consider how shitty our development indicators are in lieu of our enormous mindboggling wealth.

North Korea would be much worse off under conditions of economic blockade and enforced poverty if they didn't have an economic system that prioritized human needs.

"As countries decide they can no longer afford any welfare state worth the name"

Now that's a constructive criticism. Why do you bother *defending* North Korea and Stalin when you can suggest actual, reasonable things? It makes you look ridiculous, and unpersuasive.

Anyway, after you've eaten all the capitalist babies, the communist babies will eat you. Someone will end up ingesting all the vitamins in the end. Good night!

Because you guys just spout shit without bothering to investigate. And besides one needs an alternative when critiquing a system, critiques without solutions are worthless.

But your alternatives are discredited historical relics. Do you really thing you need to sell the idea that "Stalin's power was restricted by the Political Bureau to an extent much greater than any American President" in order to suggest that the social safety net in the liberal "West" needs drastic improvement? Sheesh. Pick a reasonable alternative.

Discredited among unthinking Americans. Not anybody who bothers to critique what they've been spoonfed all their lives.

"Do you really thing you need to sell the idea that "Stalin's power was restricted by the Political Bureau to an extent much greater than any American President" in order to suggest that the social safety net in the liberal "West" needs drastic improvement? "

Well it's comments like the ones you make that get people to believe there is no alternative to our rancid system of cannibalistic capitalism, so yes. Lies must be disputed. And I wasn't suggesting the social safety net needs drastic improvement so much as I was saying that is has been unsustainable when coupled with liberal economic systems.

You seem to be under the impression that it's a waste of time to dispute any of the unequivocal certainties you trot out in these "discussions". I suppose that it is, but only because you are extremely intolerant of dissent.

Well if being convinced of things like "Stalin's power was restricted by the Political Bureau to an extent much greater than any American President" is the *first* thing that needs to be established to be on board with your program, I guess that makes you an ideologue. I'd rather take a crack at moving the US (where I live) a bit more in the direction of Sweden or Canada, for starters, and maybe not bother with the whole dictatorship-of-anything-or-anyone thing. We'll never agree. My goals have the advantage of being smaller, additive, reversible, and more attainable. Yours, all-or-nothing. Good luck with that.

"extremely intolerant of dissent"

Your proposals are all-or-nothing, with no middle ground or wiggle room. If I'm not convinced by what you say, and you simply take a harder line, what is there to tolerate? It's an ultimatum, not a discussion.

Good night.

It's not the first thing, but since you brought it up it could not go without being challenged. If being on board with your program is uncritically accepting distortions of the historical truth, count me out. I'm all on board for incremental change as a strategic goal, which is why I vote and campaign in bourgeois elections despite my misgivings about their efficacy, but I hold no illusions about incremental change being able to the solve the ultimate problems we face.

While I'm sympathetic to the pushback on the systematic one-dimensional representation of non-western political systems, this is stretching it too far.

I'll debate the merits of the DPRK health system only after they stop sending whole families to labour camps under the "three generations of punishment" rule.

"Your proposals are all-or-nothing, with no middle ground or wiggle room. If I'm not convinced by what you say, and you simply take a harder line, what is there to tolerate? It's an ultimatum, not a discussion.
"

My proposals are not all or nothing. I'm simply disputing your assessments of the historical record. You think I have to accept everything you say about history as the unchallenged truth. Your alibi is that all revolutionaries oppose compromise. It's you, sir, who oppose compromise.