http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28198163

"Does 10am suddenly come before 9.30am, Jamiet?"

"The reports quote the Israelis as saying the first incident TOOK PLACE at 9.30am local time, ok. The shelling of Ramallah was already being REPORTED *BEFORE*, not *AT* 10am. "Before 10am" is before "10am". Even in this age of rapid communication, it takes news sources a few minutes to report incidents. So we're most likely talking about the incidents being much less than half an hour apart.

Fuck Jamiet you have major issues understanding time...

"it's somewhat telling that after riots in France last week, a thousand or more fled France (3rd-most Jews in the world) to come TO Israel"

Indeed, it's very telling. It tells you that Israel is not remotely threatened, despite what they'd like to say.

@obi: I'm feeling a bit ignorant now, but I just don't get it so I ask again: in what way do you associate to them? I can guess your answer: because you're a Jew. Now this is where I feel like I'm apparently missing something very obvious.. How are you a Jew? As far as I know, a Jew is a citizen of Israel and a jew is a follower of judaism. Then there's also secular Jews who, as I understand it, decent from Jews. Presumably, that's where you come in. Makes me wonder though: you're an American atheist, right? If so, you don't think that 'your people' are chosen by God, right? It's not a matter of race and hardly a matter of culture, so I just fail to see in what way you seem to think of Jews as family but don't feel the same about the rest of the world. Sure, there's more than a 50% chance that you have slightly stronger family ties with a random Jew than a random other person, but is that really what this is all about? They might be slightly more 'family' to you?

A Jew is also a person of Jewish descent. They are an ethnicity and a religious group.

A citizen of Israel can be Jewish and of Jewish descent, or not.

A citizen of America (or any country) can be Jewish and of Jewish descent, or not, but NOT an Israeli (which is a citizen of Israel).

"Fuck Jamiet you have major issues understanding time..."

How so? Jamiet raises a good point and you can only assume he's wrong. There's no evidence.

@Chaqa: Yeah that's what I said. Did you read all I said? I understand why he calls himself a Jew, I don't understand why he feels so much more compassion for a random Jew than a random other person.

He does not raise a good point. As you say there is no evidence, so where the fuck does that point come from? Are you telling me that modern command and control can't respond to an attack on military forces in 15 minutes? Are you dumb?

Almost as bad as his understanding of timezones as witnessed by his "there is literally no place on earth where it is still Sunday" a few months ago.

@goldfinger : Ha ok, so because the Palestinians have never been independent it is normal to steel their land and give it to some people who claim it's theirs just because they were "kicked out" one THOUSAND years ago ? just like that ?

@SD : so Israel has been at war for 2/3 of it existence.. Doesn't that prove that it is not in the right location ?

Say you wanna make a new country, why go exactly where you KNOW it's gonna cause troubles ? Why didn't the Jews get some part of Africa or America with almost no inhabitants (that the British or the French or the USA could have also given so graciously) instead of getting the land that is sacred for EVERYONE of the 3 main monotheists religions !?!?

If you ask for unrest, you get unrest. When you don't ask for it but it is forced on you, you get the chance to defend yourself...

because Jews have seen Israel as a homeland for thousands of years. You don't have to like it, it may be "racist" to act on that desire, but it doesn't mean it isn't true. Africa and America do not have value to jews.

Why don't the Kurds make a homeland in the Gobi desert?

and may I add that we should take the populations of India or Pakistan and move them to random deserts across the world because they have been at war 2/3 of their existance and OBVIOUSLY that means both states shouldn't be there.

because they have been in THEIR land for generations and generations...

How many Israelis have ancestors that were living in this region?

This lans has also a LOT of meaning for the Muslims and the Christians and it has been the witness of so many religious wars that it is literally the WORST place in the world for the jewish nation! it's almost like they wanted war in the first place.

No the only logical reason for Israel being where it is is that the ones who decided where it was gonna be couldn't care less about the local population and were pressured by Jews that had a lot of power. So the Israelis brought this situation on themselves, while the Palestinians didn't ask for shit, and are now in the worst possible situation : no country, no money, filled with terrorists, no infrastructures, no rights, and the list goes on and on.

As for India and Pakistan this is once again a British thing...

Braillard? look at history, whilst it's not the same thing, jews have been persecuted wherever they lived. Are you going to say that europe isn't the right location because of the holocaust, pogroms, spanish inquisition? Jews have been throughout history persecuted, and I really don't think is evidence that they should move.

People forget this, that whilst many jews came to israel during and after the nazis, many jews lived there before. the place wasn't completely arbitrary. Moreover, another thing people forget, the people that moved there from the 1930s onwards, legitimately owned their land. They bought their land from the british. Often, unfortunately, arabs lived there without deeds too. But that is the fault of the british - unless you want to tell many people that just escaped the holocaust that bought their land that they should just fuck off.

I really don't see what this poor persecuted group did wrong at this stage. I'm not an israel apologist, but come on, get your facts together before you comment.

and also they all have been living on theur land for quiet some time!

@steephie: You said "How are you a Jew? As far as I know, a Jew is a citizen of Israel and a jew is a follower of judaism. "

Also, and this might surprise you, but in the early 1940s the jewish lobby was not so powerful, they didn't use this huge source of power to get what they wanted. There's a reason most western countries would not allow hundreds of thousands of jewish refugees in.

Yeah ok SD, now I agree, the mistake was that the British sold land that already existed
But they sure did so because of the pressure they had and the fact that they were considering arabs as lesser people... my point is that it is neither the persecuted first setllers nor the palestinian fault.

The confilct is really between Jew extremists and muslim extremists, so basically none of them are right. But when you see the difference of means and the difference of deaths and the difference of living conditions, one cannot say that the palestinians are the bad guys... they are suffering way more than the israelis will ever do and they have a lot less of what they righfully deserve...

hence i blame israel's governments for hamas' actions

the jew bankers financed both world war for the british...

" because they have been in THEIR land for generations and generations..."

Is this before or after millions of Hindus and muslims were ethnically cleansed from both countries and tossed over an arbitrary border so that others of the same religion could take the others land? Please.

"How many Israelis have ancestors that were living in this region?"

How many Americans have ancestors living in North America before the 1600s? Israelis have a higher proportion

"This lans has also a LOT of meaning for the Muslims and the Christians and it has been the witness of so many religious wars that it is literally the WORST place in the world for the jewish nation! it's almost like they wanted war in the first place."

Or they wanted the land they called home through 2000 years of what they termed the second exile while they were in it... Sorry if its inconvenient, "want war" no.

"No the only logical reason for Israel being where it is is that the ones who decided where it was gonna be couldn't care less about the local population and were pressured by Jews that had a lot of power. So the Israelis brought this situation on themselves, while the Palestinians didn't ask for shit, and are now in the worst possible situation : no country, no money, filled with terrorists, no infrastructures, no rights, and the list goes on and on."

You are dumb.

if that is not power, what is?

"
the jew bankers financed both world war for the british..."

here comes.

maybe i am dumb Santa but i don't insult others because they don't think alike

We are going into Jew bankers now, all bets are off.

alright maybe that wasn't the best arguement, but it doesn't dismiss all the others

The British did what they did because they like to fuck up the world when they dismantle their empire. Check out India/Pakistan, Kurdistan and other places for a reference.

In the beginning, jews were actually targetted by the arab countries (either in the war of independence, or the riots against the jews that lived in places like syria for centuries). I do agree that now things are warped, and like I said, I'm not an israel apologist. i think they need to give independence to the palestinians and help them build their state up. It is irritating though when people assume that because Israel is (partially) in the wrong now (at times), that they must have always been this evil force.

Funny fact for you too - go to the most extreme jews in israel, and ask them what they think of israel? Their neighbourhoods in jerusalem even have signs saying they aren't zionists, and that they don't believe in the authority of the israeli state. They don't give a shit about the palestinians, they just want to study scripture and pray to God all day.

oh dear Braillard, not to be a dick, but I thought you might become reasonable, but then you go to the old 'jewish bankers' for shame.