(Turkey) Interesting start to the game - my guy has some tough decisions to make, but I'd say the odds are in favour of Russia making a grab for Rumania over any other move. Now Russia's Black Sea grab has ruled out a juggernaut, I'd say the Balkans is going to be interesting for some time to come. And Italy's ambiguous opening certainly sets up an agonising dilemma for Austria this autumn...

(France) @Turkey Italy didn't just set up a dilemma for Austria though. Tyrolia borders Munich as well. Surely Germany and Austria will leave at least one of Munich, Vienna and Trieste open. Italy just has to make the correct guess and they'll have two builds, a great result for any Italian in the first year.

(Turkey) Well, I'd like to see Italy go for Munich personally. I'm hoping Austria and Turkey can work together against Russia, whose Black Sea move is obviously hostile. My guy was keen on the juggernaut, but now it's about fighting it out in the Balkans.
The main point for Russia to take away from this is that while he will probably gain Rumania, he can't expect to make any solid progress against Turkey while fighting Austria too. Better to retreat to Sev and back off, that's my advice.

(England) Because of the move to Edinburgh England could support France into Belgium in order to bounce Germany, although that would lose a chance to take the Barents.

(France) @England. I appreciate the offer but as I mentioned before, I don't much fancy obligating my driver to order Pic-Bel as due to the public nature of these negotiations the German driver would then be certain that Burgundy is open for them to enter from Ruhr, which would spell disaster for France. However if the German backseat driver is also agreeable to France taking Belgium and willing to strongly suggest to their driver to let us in then I might very well reconsider.

Otherwise, if the English driver is indeed inclined to make sure that Germany doesn't get three builds, I would suggest they order Nth-Den or Edi-Den instead as those don't require coordination with France.

Also, I wouldn't recommend going for the Barents Seas. It would antagonize Russia while Germany gets three builds, not necessarily the best diplomatic situation for England IMHO.

(Germany)

I would not recommend allowing France into Belgium - this is entirely illogical given that the entire point of F Holland moves is to have more influence over Belgium. I wouldn't be too unhappy to see a bounce.

(Turkey) @Germany If England and France want to combine to stop Germany getting three builds, that seems completely reasonable to me. A German fleet in Holland doesn't somehow give German an irresistible right to Belgium...

(France) @Germany Certainly you have more influence over Belgium due to the move to Holland. No one disputes that. In fact, even if you were to grant France access to Belgium this season you would still have that influence since France wouldn't be able to support hold Belgium in the next Spring while Germany would still be able to perform a supported attack on it.

Note however that your influence over Belgium is also in part due to my driver having shown you the sign of good faith of leaving Burgundy open. If he hadn't we might now be discussing how France can support Italy into Munich or the other way around. Not moving to Burgundy was suboptimal for France so the only reason I can think of for my driver to have done so is in response to your request, i.e. as an indication that he is open towards cooperation with Germany.

Unfortunately it seems that you are quick to forget what favor we have done for you (since you haven't even taken the trouble to acknowledge it) and hard to press to reciprocate. I hope that your driver will in some way signal you to adopt a more cooperative stance towards France for otherwise it will pretty much force us to seek a Franco-English alliance, which frankly, is not at all an unattractive option anyway.

(Germany)

Not moving to Burgundy is not an exceptionally favourable, peaceable move. Instead, it is simply avoiding unnecessary provocation in Spring '01. It seems that the French driver understands this, even if his backseat counterpart doesn't.

Regarding the wider picture, iirc it's generally considered that the extra centre in '01 is not a significant advantage due to the lack of flexibility that F Holland brings, especially since Belgium is often German in '02 anyway. A 6 centre Germany, whilst optically scary, is not actually all that dangerous at this point.

(austria)
russia, it is still not to late for an alliance
turkey. the russians refuse to ally, so i think that it woudl be mutually beneficial if you and russia did not juggernaut, and instead allied whith austria.
italy: i trust your intentions are honorable... if not i might not do anything about it. ;(

(austria)
@turkey: it woudl be especially mutually beneficial for myself.

(France) @Germany I didn't say it was "exceptionally" favorable. It is certainly favorable though, but again, it is obvious that you refuse to acknowledge even that. Rather peculiar given the fact that you have asked for this favor repeatedly in the previous season, but whatever. Oh, and by the way, Germany not jumping to six centers in the first year isn't exceptionally favorable either. As you have said yourself, Germany often gets Belgium in the second year anyway.

@England/Italy I am still of the opinion that Germany growing to six in the first year is unbalanced. Germany however seems eager to try for it. Due to my driver opening favorably for Germany there is nothing France can do about that at this point though, so I guess it is up to either of you to decide whether or not Germany growing quickly is in the best interest of your respective countries. In case you don't you have the 'spare' units to do something about it.

(England) If Italy moves from Tyrolia to Munich that would solve the problem of a six centre Germany, but it would have diplomatic repercussions, although really with the move to Tyrolia Italy has to make a decision between attacking Austria or Germany, and moving to Apulia rather than shuffling to Venice definately brings down the threat to Austria. However, England could choose to use the North Sea to bounce in Denmark

(Germany)
I don't think I've ever been in a game where Italy's gone for Munich in '01 and it's worked out well for them. All it tends to do is agro someone who would otherwise be perfectly happy to work with them.

I'm kind of busy with school....Is anyone willing to take over my spot as the back seat driver of Russia?
Also, until someone takes over, i will continue with my duties :/ *sigh* *why did i choose to do this* *tears of regret* *not really, I'm a MAN* *Thucy would disagree* *shameless baiting*

(Russia)
Kind of sucks that the driver threw the juggernaut away, however ITS NOT TOO LATE. That however is entirely up to the driver and the patience of Turkey.

@Turkey, perhaps the black sea could move to Rumania, thus vacating it along with Bulgarian support while Ukraine and Warsaw will take galicia, offering a nice position for me. Also, if Italy decides to convoy apulia to Greece, perhaps bulgaria could provide support there instead? As long as Austria is starved of SC's. Finally, the fleet in Constantinople could move to Aegean?

@Seems I will be taking Sweden for sure this round as germany has not decided to move into Denmark and thus cannot bounce. I hope you will focus on Germany or France instead of Scandinavia. There is just so much more to gain from German SC's.

Also, i think the point of the back seat driver is to talk in a way that implies that YOU are the actual person behind the orders, and that any deviating by the driver is a surprise that spices things up so to say. Instead this has become more of some commentary/analysis, of the game with suggested moves, kind of like that 'School of War' thread.

I'd like to hear what oscar says about this.

(Italy) Well, that was quite a move to Tyrolia.
@Germany: you are quite right, a move to Munich usually does not bode well for Italy. And you do have France and England to deal with, so I am inclined to agree that agressing you would be a great displeasure to you and me.
@ Austria: It would be quite dumb to attack you. I am familiar with Italy attacking Austria, and usually it does not go well. you have a possible Juggernaut going on, which is not good.
@England: So how's the weather. I presume it's raining. Look at all those possibilities to go to, there is Norway, Denmark, Barents and even Belgium.

(France)

@Russia/ILN
The commentary like character is by no means obligatory. It's just a format that kind of fits with the public nature of the negotiations and the uncertainty of the moves. It is however entirely up to you how you negotiate and up to you and your driver to figure out how to best complement each other. If you make detailed arrangements for the moves and your driver goes along with that then good for you.

In your case you had one idea and your driver had another. That's one of the awkward situations you can get with this variant, but it can also give the element of surprise. I mean how often do you see Russia enter the Black Sea in Spring '01? Your driver seems to have taken advantage of the talk of Juggernaut, or maybe he just didn't trust Turkey.

Anyway, since you requested it I will look into finding a replacement for you.

(Russia) Replacement Russia reporting in.

Gobbledydook will replace ILN as the Russian backseat driver.

(Russia)

To England: Your northern opening is concerning. Should you convoy to Norway, I think Russia will respond forcefully in the north. Rumania and Sweden are guaranteed, Turkey would appreciate it if Russia goes north, and you may be facing three Russian units in Scandinavia before you even know it.
I would highly suggest reconsidering your northern opening.

To Germany: I have no issue with you grabbing three supply centres this turn, but I would rather you not build fleet in Berlin. It can of course be completely innocent, but this is a gunboat game after all and Driver Russia might not think Driver Germany is on the same channel as Backseat Germany.

To Turkey: I can only say that Russia's move to Black Sea was a defensive manuever given that it was possible you would also move to Black Sea. Now that we're in the Black Sea, I doubt Russia will pick a fight against you while England goes north and Austria's position uncertain.

To Austria: The bounce in Galicia is nothing more than a defensive play. We would rather guarantee Rumania for ourselves and there are many nasty plays that Austria can do with an army in Galicia. We remain open to all discussions of working together.

To Italy: I eagerly await the next chapter of The Tyrolian Adventure! You've left us all on a cliffhanger...

To France: hi.

(France) @Russia Hi and thanks for stepping in. Good opening post, looks like you're off to a good start. Have a good game.

(Germany)

Were it me submitting the orders, I would have no intention of building a fleet in Berlin.

(austria)
@russia: if you remain open, then why have you not responded to any of my multiple attempts at establishing an alliance?

(England) @Russia it could be argued that the northern opening was simply done to provide more flexibility as to which fleet to use to convoy, trusting that France wouldn't be rash enough to move to the English Channel, thereby threatening London. If the Norwegian Sea convoys Edi to Norway it could be seen as good for Russia because it means no fleet in the Barents for Spring 02, while the North Sea bounces in Denmark or the like. The other option, of course, is to use the Nwg Sea fleet to capture Norway, which as you said would aggravate you less. However, we'd have to get cooperation from France and/or Germany to succesfuly get the army to the mainland.

(Russia)
To Austria. I subbed in. Please restate your offers of alliance anew so I may consider them.
To England. Nwg c Edi ~ Nwy would be unacceptable. There is nothing stopping Spring Nwg ~ Bar if Russia doesn't build Stp and then we are screwed.

(austria)
ok, sorry then. also thanks for subbing. i mainly just offered an alliance in those messages.s

(Russia)
To Austria: Do you have anything specific in mind? Alliances come in many forms. There is the lets beat up the person next to us and see how it goes alliance, the lets go opposite directions and not have to worry about our border alliance, the to death do us part world domination alliance and so on...