I know, but the Monks perfected it.

"If he is Baptist, they don't use wine. Most Baptist churches use "the fruit of the vine" which is what Biblical wine means. The term in the Bible can refer to unfermented grape juica or fermented, what we call wine."

I grew up Baptist. Communion for us was Welch's grape juice and Wonder Bread.

I'm giving up horsemeat. As I live in the UK this probably isn't a good time.

I read the UK was banning the horsemeat anyhow.

tsk tsk Draug...I gave up alcoholism because it was the right thing to do...

"Not entirely sure why you think comparisoms with Christ in the desert is important..."

Uh, if Lent is supposed to be something that mimics Christ's example, then THAT is why his example is relevant. If your reason for doing something ISN'T based upon something Biblical, then what is it based upon, and why is it tied to the Church?

If you religious life is going to be based upon something other than Biblical examples...then...er....how is it religious?

As for Baptists and wine...Baptists are raging hypocrites. I've had one or two Baptist Pastors actually admit to me in private discussions that the wine in the Bibles *is* wine, and that the reason they use Welches in communion is so as to not temp people or some such crap. A very few Baptists actually admit drinking is not evil, per se, it is drinking to excess that is the problem, but they try to avoid it all together so as to not fall in to a sinful habit as a way of life.

So Krellin, when are you gonna take up a cross and follow Chirst all the way until someone nails you too it and you die? When are you going to do as the martyrs did and die at the mouths of lions or burned up in a furnace or hung upside down on a cross until you are dead or be beheaded?

What we do, we do in *rememberance* of him. But we are not perfect and without sin as he was, therefore he doesn't expect us to follow him unto a physical death. He didn't call on us to make a suicide pact like the Heaven's Gate whck jobs. Instead he died and did all that *for* us *because* we are imperfect. So we do what we can. Remember, it wasn't Jesus who said he could do all things through Himself which strengthened him. Nor was it Peter who said that (Nay, Peter denied him before the cock crowed three times signaling a new day had begun). It was Paul who said that and he said it in a letter as inspiration for others. It is called hyperbole and is kinda like "Win one for the Gipper!" It was meant as encouragment for those who were down whent he early church was being persecuted and its members being killed whenever and wherever Rome found them.

@Krellin,
"As for Baptists and wine...Baptists are raging hypocrites."

I had a Baptist pastor once who brought a proposal to the congregation asking them to remove the rule in the church bylaws that no church member could use alcohol. The congregation almost unanimously voted to keep the prohibition in place. So it's not always the leaders of the church that are the barrier.

As for me and my family, we live by Ecclesiastes. To every thing there is a season. A time to every purpose under heaven. In short, all things in moderation.

I gave up on my faith years ago... Does that count?

The papacy.

Visiting Oscar Pistorius after dark.....

I'm with krellin on this one. I've never seen the point, for the reasons he says.

There can be reasons for fasting, but it should be done for a reason and as prescribed in Matthew 16, not for ritual or customary reasons.

^^

Claims things shouldn't be done for ritual or customary reasons.

Cites the Bible as a reason to do something.

2 years ago, Stephen Colbert gave up Catholicism for Lent: http://bit.ly/eYhSFl

"Cites the Bible as a reason to do something. " Just because you are doing something described inteh Bible does not mean that you are doing it for ritual or customary reasons.

The Bibles sets and example to some as a proper way to live and have a relationship with their God. There is a huge difference between, say, getting up in the morning and every day at 6:30 AM saying the exact same words of prayer (which would be ritual), versus taking time when you are emotionally moved (or whatever) and "speaking" to God.

I am speaking to you, write now, and it is not a ritual. If, on the other hand, I only came on at the appointed time and said "YJ is a great guy" that would be ritual and meaningless.

So, the Bible sets an example of Christ fasting and praying. Christ does not do this as a ritual or custom...but the "observation" of Lent is exactly that: A customary ritual that people perform, often times void of any real emotional/religious connection to what they are doing, and certainly not with an intense focus on prayer. Not sure what is difficult to understand about that.

I am giving up posting dumb comments on forums. Oops! Damn...

Nothing, really.

Sometimes you do make sense :)

Sometimes.

Sometimes...

BTW - Congrats on the paper.

Thanks!

When did they invent Lent? Before or after Ramadan?

Lent wasn't officially celebrated until the 1500s... I'm pretty sure Ramadan is set in the Quran. It's also simply a month on the Islamic lunar calendar that is now recognized as a month of fasting. So, by that, it seems logical to think that Ramadan technically came first.

Well, "Lenten" fasts actually existed before Christ. But the early church adopted it as a rememberance of Christ within the first couple centuries of Christianity, so at least 300 years before Ramadan as the Prophet wasn't around until the 6th century.

That said, Lenten practices for ritual alone (or any practice for ritual alone) is not a reason. The ritual is there to remind us and to focus us. But we still have to take effort to practice the four desciplines of Lent (Repentance, Prayer, Fasting, Works of Love) and to be mindful, always seeking God's will in them. Just fasting because we are told to, isn't practicing the Disciplines of Lent.

Krellin and I have talked a bit in PM about this, so he knows where my heart is this Lenten season and that it isn't just ceremony for cermeony's sake. Right, krellin?

For Lent, I decided to give up

Well, _______ actually existed before Christ. But the early church adopted it within the first couple centuries of Christianity....

Can you think of anything in the Bible that doesn't fill in the blank?

Bloodsucking

"Well, _______ actually existed before Christ. But the early church adopted it within the first couple centuries of Christianity...."

a. Christmas
b. the concept of hell
c. Antisemitism
d. misogyny
e. priestly celibacy
f. tithing
g. the Cult of Mary
h. a pantheon of demigods (saints, if you will)
i. all of the above

(i) obviously. :-) Although the Christian Hell is very different and unique from the Jewish hell which is more a place of suffering on earth and less a place of the afterlife.

Not at all (e). Priestly celibacy wasn't official policy until over 1000 years after Jesus, and even then it wasn't put into practice. The legendary naked orgies of the Monks and local girls in the hot springs of the city of Bath carried on a hell of a long time after.