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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 1011 of 1419
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Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Jan 13 UTC
Face to face
Played my first face to face last weekend. Bought an 18 pack of PBR and played with 6 total on the board. 3 of us had played before and 3 never. Ended up the 3 that had played drew E/F/G. We made it to 1905 before we ran out of time, but one of the noobs was hooked immediately and ordered the game online next day. He's trying to set up another face to face this weekend.
6 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
15 Jan 13 UTC
Ghost Rating Viewer
Spending some time on a side project making a GR viewer
12 replies
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
EOG: Livestrong, take drugs
gameID=108531

Placeholder for pending eog
15 replies
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
17 Jan 13 UTC
Interest in Passworded Full Press Live game tonight?
Interest in quality Full Press Live game tonight?
17 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
17 Jan 13 UTC
US employee 'outsourced job to China'
US employee 'outsourced job to China' for a fifth of his salay and spent his days watching cat videos on YouTube and playing diplomacy. Own up who is it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21043693
10 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
Should Knowledge Be Free?
We've had this debate ad nauseum regarding music, movies, games, etc. In light of the Aaron Swartz debacle, I think it's worth talking about Piracy in the context of Science.
97 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
16 Jan 13 UTC
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAD MARX!!!!!!!!!!
From: Sandgoose!

P.S. Mine (Draugnar) is next Monday. I'll be 47. How old are you?
28 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
16 Jan 13 UTC
Ah... I forgot to do the 6th annual Pitirre Awards... so: dip awards 2012
the year has finalized and the awards has come in so we can get an idea of who's who in 2012.
8 replies
Open
Frank (100 D)
17 Jan 13 UTC
Craziest story I've ever read
this is a good read, even if you dont care about sports . http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax
10 replies
Open
democanarchis (100 D)
17 Jan 13 UTC
Looking for final player for game
Game is http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=107933, full press and 7 day phases. Not anon as the rest of us know each other IRL. One player short, pm for password if interested.
2 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
17 Jan 13 UTC
Coming soon: national database of the mentally ill
"The official attitude will be: anyone who sees a psychiatrist is a potential killer... The motto will become: destroy the patient, before he can destroy others."
http://lewrockwell.com/rappoport/rappoport12.1.html
4 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
13 Jan 13 UTC
Sitter
I need a sitter from the 19th through the 27th... it may go a day or so beyond that as well. I hope to have most of my games paused but I'll still have between 5-8 to play. None are shorter than 24 hour phases. If anyone is available and could do this, I'll pay you in hugs and maybe a box of chocolates if you're dumb enough to give an ass like me your mailing address.

Thanks :D
2 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
17 Jan 13 UTC
phone unlock help
can someone help me to unlock this phone?
i don't need to unlock the service just the personal lock sistem,i got it from someone who does not remember the code.
nokia 1208 type:RH-105 imei:358317/03/833725/5
6 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
10 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
Favorite Movie Quotes
What movie quotes do you find so memorable and/or useful that you find yourself saying them in everyday life?
121 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
Hitler: Evil Overlord or misunderstood genius? You decide.
In honor of Ulytau
35 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
16 Jan 13 UTC
i am back
hi guys,remember me? i am back
8 replies
Open
damian (675 D)
17 Jan 13 UTC
Where do you draw the line?
Another thread about copyright issues. How to define piracy, where do you think the actual act of theft occurs?
10 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
17 Jan 13 UTC
How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/story-man-outsourced-china-could-135701981.html

See what I did there?
0 replies
Open
gamer5432121 (100 D)
16 Jan 13 UTC
Help
How do you find out the id number for a game.
4 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
16 Jan 13 UTC
Dutch diplomacy screwed up here
My sincerest apologies on behalf of our dwarf nation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2262061/Its-date-Cameron-rushes-forward-Big-Speech-Europe-Friday-avoid-upsetting-French-Germans.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
24 replies
Open
AdrianMRyan (133 D)
15 Jan 13 UTC
Can't unpause.
Some friends and I are having some tech troubles with our game <http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=102754> in that it won't let us unpause the game. This might not be the right place for this but couldn't find it. Halp? Thanks much!
4 replies
Open
Commander_Cool (131 D)
16 Jan 13 UTC
Diplo Turn Limit?
Hi there, just wondering if standard Diplomacy games have a turn limit, ie do they end in a particular year if the game is not finished by then?

Thanks
2 replies
Open
TheJok3r (765 D)
15 Jan 13 UTC
Sandy Hook Conspiracy Video
Not sure if this thread has already been made, or if this video is "old". But it's circulating quite a bit on my Facebook at the moment. I'm interested to see what you guys think of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx9GxXYKx_8
13 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
15 Jan 13 UTC
webdip identity
Possibly, I brought this up already, but I find this interesting. When I'm on webdiplomacy.net arguing / playing Diplomacy, am I redhouse, or am I the person behind the computer?
56 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
16 Jan 13 UTC
Why all the Lori Grimes hate?
I'm only through the second episode of season three of Walking Dead, but why all the Lori Grimes hate? We've all done dumb things, like drive off in a car without telling anyone and crashing into a walker, and who hasn't lost a child (a few hundred times), so beyond the obvious complaints (crashing car, losing son), why all the Lori Grimes hate?
3 replies
Open
Frank (100 D)
15 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
happy birthday gourd
free jimbo.
4 replies
Open
Commander_Cool (131 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
Leaving Notes in Games
Hi there, I have about ten games going at once atm, and I'm wondering if theres some in-system way of leaving notes for myself regarding each game. Who I'm allied with, etc. Thanks
17 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
11 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
On GM crops
"France, remember, long refused to accept the potato because it was an American import. As one commentator put it recently, Europe is on the verge of becoming a food museum. We well-fed consumers are blinded by romantic nostalgia for the traditional farming of the past. Because we have enough to eat, we can afford to indulge our aesthetic illusions."
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Fasces349 (0 DX)
13 Jan 13 UTC
Well to expand on my previous argument, the life expectancy of a smoker in Canada is 75, the life expectancy of the world is 69. So while in North America, yes people would on average would die more, but for the undeveloped part of the world, they would be much better off with this. On average, we would be at a net gain of 6 years. But this is assuming GMOs not only have carcinogens, but at the same rate as tobacco, which I know of no study that suggests that.
SunZi (1275 D)
13 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/monsanto-corn-study-france_n_1896115.html?utm_hp_ref=green
redhouse1938 (429 D)
13 Jan 13 UTC
(+2)
re: OP
In my own political views, I have adopted the quite general rule of thumb that in any decision I consider the question, "what would the French do about this problem" and then tacitly align myself with the other side of the debate.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Jan 13 UTC
lmao
Yonni (136 D(S))
13 Jan 13 UTC
Thucy, what makes you say that Golden Rice is a boondoggle?
The latest incarnations of it have shown a definite ability to increase vitamin A levels.

Also, what is it that you study? Just curious.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
13 Jan 13 UTC
So, I saw the video, and it reminds me of a debate we've had a couple of weeks ago (threadID=960961). Clearly, science > mass hysteria. Time to accept that and move along. I will drink a glass of GM modified wine on this great community.
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
13 Jan 13 UTC
Must say, I'm glad to see scientific thought dominating this discussion thread. I was quite prepared to encounter a bunch of alarmist clap-trap but it's nice to see reason presented so soundly. This has elevated my opinion of this board.
Yonni (136 D(S))
13 Jan 13 UTC
Agreed, Swedgin.

However, I think this is a topic in particular where it's important not to be too dismissive of the critics. Like Thucy said, there are many real and alarming risks involved with GM crops.
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
13 Jan 13 UTC
M. Yonni,

A good point. Well, I suppose vigilance is advised under any circumstances, no? Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
13 Jan 13 UTC
No time right now to look up my sources, will do it later.

But I study international relations with a focus on environment and agriculture, and a regional focus on Africa.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
13 Jan 13 UTC
well I will eagerly await the day you do cite your sources.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
13 Jan 13 UTC
@SunZi http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/09/24/does-genetically-modified-corn-cause-cancer-a-flawed-study/
Thucydides (864 D(B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
I hope you can access most of these. The first one is a general thing about genetic modification, and the rest is about Golden Rice. There's no bias here, the articles are from a multitude of perspectives. I think if you are fair you have to conclude even if you are charitable to GMOs that Golden Rice has been a disappointment but illustrates what could be.

https://courses.utexas.edu/bbcswebdav/pid-4567991-dt-content-rid-20834724_1/courses/2012_fall_37400_GRG_344K/Course%20Documents/Readings%20Tu%20Oct%2012th%20Shiva%2C%20Feeding%20the%20World/Feeding%20the%20World%20Shiva.pdf

http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/GEessays/goldenricehoax.html

https://courses.utexas.edu/bbcswebdav/pid-4567995-dt-content-rid-20834722_1/courses/2012_fall_37400_GRG_344K/Course%20Documents/Readings%20Tu%20Oct%2012th%20Impact%20Cost%20Effectiveness%20of%20Golden%20Rice/Potential%20Impact%20and%20Cost%20Effectiveness%20of%20Golden%20Rice.pdf

https://courses.utexas.edu/bbcswebdav/pid-4567992-dt-content-rid-20834706_1/courses/2012_fall_37400_GRG_344K/tough%20lessons%20from%20golden%20rice.pdf

Unfortunately an article written by the scientist behind Golden Rice in its defense is 404'ing me... but you support it anyway so I'm sure you can poke holes. His argument was basically that Golden Rice's problems are not the fault of bioengineers like himself but are rather managerial issues and influence from his employers, and that there is a lot of potential in the idea that is not getting enough attention from detractors who he says have ulterior motives, though he didn't elaborate what those were (you could guess he means they're dirty leftists or back-to-nature luddites).
Thucydides (864 D(B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
Sigh. Sorry those links are really long. Let me shorten them up. Same order:

http://bit.ly/11tKWgm

http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/GEessays/goldenricehoax.html

http://bit.ly/WU2N8L

http://bit.ly/VEJa90
loowkey (132 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
Nothing wrong with GM. Its pefectly safe. French just are just trying to cash in on making a controversy. ( Or N.A. is still test) What we should be doing is forcing Monsanto to cut its prices. The reason being is that the technology that made them successful was discovered by the public ie university public funding
Thucydides (864 D(B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
What we should really be doing is ending the practice of patenting natural life, and should be reforming the application of patents of GMOs to the natural reproduction and proliferation of the organisms once they are out in the fields. But everyone knows this is all down to agribusiness and their beholden governments, and doesn't really have much to do with the science of GMOs themselves, except to the extent that agribusiness has an interest in obscuring evidence that some GMOs are harmful.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
(+1)
Perhaps the most basic objection to GMOs is that the ones that are being produced are not the ones that we need. They should be a way out of the chemically intensive conventional model which is supremely unsustainable, rather than a reinforcer of the same. GMOs usually serve to be herbicide resistant, that way you can blanket the crops with the stuff. We should, instead of that, be trying to create GMO varieties that have no need of herbicide in the first place. That is harder science, but it is what we need as a species.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Jan 13 UTC
easier said then done Thucy, The only GMOs that don't need herbicides right now are ones that naturally grow the herbicide inside them so they don't need to be blanketed.

If we create a high yield, nutritious vegetation, then the local wildlife such as insects and weeds will likely want to eat it. Pesticides kill the ones that try and deter others, which is why we use them.

We use GMOs that are herbicide resistant because it increases the yield of the plant more then any other gene, and more food>good food in a world where there are 2 billion people suffering of malnutrition.

sadly many of those suffering don't have access to gmos because their local governments banned the stuff.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
Wow Thucy hold the phone here for a second. Your University of Texas stuff led to some errors and I could only access this one:

http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/GEessays/goldenricehoax.html

This article is no bueno at all. The idea of enriching rice with vitamin A is not necessarily to make people dependent on rice as a source of vitamin A! It could be a simple case of "these people eat rice anyways, and they have a vitamin A deficit anyways, if there's more vitamin A in the rice they eat, AT LEAST it helps a little bit, even if it doesn't solve the problem."

Also, what the hell does this mean:
"The goal is 33.3% micrograms/100g of rice."

Is that 33.3 micrograms or 33.3% of a microgram, so .333 micrograms?

And I'm surprised that someone with a Ph.D. like Mr. Shiva here writes an article that contains a lot of his opinions at the beginning and no references at the end!

Sorry Thucy, you're going to have to do your literature study on the subject all over again :-(
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Jan 13 UTC
I also could only access one (the same one), now if Thucy was kind enough to gives us his UT username and password, then we could access them... (lol)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
damnit i was afraid you guys wouldnt be able to access them
Thucydides (864 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
#KnowledgeShouldBeFree
Thucydides (864 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
And as to the article itself, I think the point was that the boosters of GR were overselling it big time, and GR in the first place was just a sop to get those who say GMOs aren't helping the poor like they're supposed to to shut up. It's been a while since I read it though.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
lol fasces dont lecture me about agriculture
ulytau (541 D)
15 Jan 13 UTC
shouldnt you be volunteering in mali or something anyways they bomb people down there
redhouse1938 (429 D)
15 Jan 13 UTC
"damnit i was afraid you guys wouldnt be able to access them"

You've been a waste of time in this thread Thucy, sorry to say so. Copy paste the stuff in here or let the adults do the talking.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
wow, asshole much?
redhouse1938 (429 D)
15 Jan 13 UTC
Yeah I can be like that.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
apparently.

this is the only one that is copy-pastable, the others are scanned books:

IT’S EASY TO RECOGNIZE INGO POTRYKUS AT
the train station in Basel, Switzerland. Quietly waiting while hurried travelers zip by, he is holding, as he promised, the framed and slightly yellowed cover of the 31 July
2000 issue of Time magazine. It features Potrykus’s bearded face flanked by some
bright green stalks and a bold headline: “This Rice Could Save A Million Kids A Year.”

The story ran at a time when Potrykus, a German plant biotechnologist who has long
lived in Switzerland, was on a roll. In 1999, just as he was about to retire, Potrykus and his colleagues had stunned plant scientists and biotechnology opponents alike by creating a rice variety that produced a group of molecules called
pro-vitamin A in its seeds. The researchers thought this “golden rice”—named for the
yellow hue imparted by the compounds—held a revolutionary promise to fight vitamin A deficiency, which blinds or kills thousands of children in developing countries every year.

Almost a decade later, golden rice is still just that: a promise. Well-organized
opposition and a thicket of regulations on transgenic crops have prevented the
plant from appearing on Asian farms within 2 to 3 years, as Potrykus and his colleagues once predicted. In fact, the first field trial of golden rice in Asia
started only this month. Its potential to prevent the ravages of vitamin A deficiency has
yet to be tested, and even by the most optimistic projections, no farmer will plant the
rice before 2011.

The delays have made Potrykus, who lives in Magden, a small village in an idyllic
valley near Basel, a frustrated man. For working on what he considers a philanthropic project, he has been ridiculed and vilified as an industry shill. Relating the golden rice saga at his dinner table while his wife serves croissants and strong coffee, he
at times comes off as bitter. There’s more at stake than golden rice and personal vindication, he says. In his view, 2 decades of fear-mongering by organizations such as Greenpeace, his prime nemesis, have created a regulatory climate so burdensome that only big companies with deep pockets can afford to get any genetically modified (GM) product approved. As a result, it has become virtually impossible to use the technology in the service of the poor, Potrykus says.

Not everybody is so gloomy. Potrykus’s
co-inventor and main partner, plant biochemist Peter Beyer of the University
of Freiburg in Germany, agrees that
it’s been a difficult decade. But a
more cheerful character by nature,
Beyer believes rules are just something to be dealt with; complaining
about them does little, he says. A
handful of other researchers working
on GM crops to fight malnutrition
also feel confident that their work
will eventually pay off.
Many scientists agree with
Potrykus, however, that GM technology has become so controversial that
for now, there’s little point in harnessing it for the world’s poorest. HarvestPlus, a
vast global program at public research institutes aimed at creating more nutritious staple crops, is forgoing GM technology almost entirely and using conventional breeding instead, despite its built-in limitations. GM products just might end up on the shelf, says HarvestPlus Director Howarth Bouis.

Potrykus, now 75 years old, worries that he may not live to see his invention do any
good. “It’s difficult for me not to get upset about this situation,” he says. The idea for golden rice was born at an international agricultural meeting in the
Philippines in 1984, says Gary Toenniessen of the Rockefeller Foundation, a philanthropy in New York City. It was the early days of genetic engineering, and over beers at a guesthouse one evening, Toenniessen asked a group of plant breeders how the technology of copying and pasting genes might benefit rice. “Yellow endosperm,” one of them said. That odd answer alluded to the fact that a
quarter-billion children have poor diets lacking in vitamin A. This deficiency can
damage the retina and cornea and increase susceptibility to measles and other infectious diseases. The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that between 250,000 and 500,000 children go blind every year as a result, and that half of those die within 12 months. Vegetables such as carrots and tomatoes, as well as meat, butter, and milk, can provide the vitamin or its precursors, but many families in poor countries don’t have access to them. A rice variety producing precursors to vitamin A in its endosperm, the main tissue in seeds, might provide a solution—and it would have yellow kernels.

Classical breeding cannot produce such a
rice, however, because although pro-vitamin
A is present in the green parts of the rice
plant, no known strain makes it in its seeds.
The only option is to tinker with rice’s DNA
to produce the desired effect. Throughout the
1980s, the Rockefeller Foundation funded
several exploratory studies, but the plan didn’t
gel until a brainstorming meeting in New
York City in 1992, at which scientists discussed the bold idea of reintroducing the biochemical pathway leading to beta carotene,
the most important pro-vitamin A, into rice
but putting it under control of a promoter
that’s specific to endosperm.

Potrykus, then a pioneer in rice transgenics
at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
(ETH) in Zürich, attended, as did Beyer, who
specialized in carotenoid biochemistry and
molecular biology. The two met on the plane to
New York and hit it off; their fields of expertise
were complementary, and the fact that Zürich
is less than 2 hours from Freiburg was helpful.
They soon had a proposal written up.
Beyer admits he barely believed in the
idea himself, and the Rockefeller’s scientific
advisory board was equally skeptical. Introducing an entire genetic pathway into rice
seemed like a stretch. Still, the foundation
rolled the dice and supported the project.
It took 7 years, but Potrykus and Beyer
eventually succeeded in making golden rice
by splicing two daffodil genes and a bacterial gene into the rice genome. The eureka
moment arrived late one night in Freiburg,
Beyer recalls.

He was analyzing the molecular content of seeds produced in Potrykus’s
lab, as he often did, using a technique called
high-performance liquid chromatography.
This time, peaks showed up on the screen
where they had never appeared before—the
signals of carotenoids. When Beyer went
back to look at the batch of seeds, he noticed
something he had missed: The grains had a
faint yellow hue. Golden rice had been born.
The battle begins
Potrykus says he always knew golden rice—a
Thai businessman suggested the catchy
name—would be controversial. As a professor
in Switzerland, one of the most fiercely antiGM countries in Europe, he had been confronted with angry students since the 1980s.
To protect his plants, ETH spent several million dollars on a grenade-proof greenhouse.

For Beyer, unofficial road signs declaring the
Upper Rhine Valley a “GM technology-free
region” are a twice-daily reminder that the climate in Germany isn’t much better.
But golden rice posed a special dilemma to
GM crop opponents, admits Benedikt Haerlin, who coordinated Greenpeace’s European campaign at the time and now works for the
Foundation on Future Farming. Unlike the
existing GM crops that primarily helped farmers and pesticide companies, it was the first crop designed to help poor consumers in
developing countries. It might save lives. The
decision whether to oppose it weighed heavily
on him, Haerlin says, which is why he consulted with WHO experts on vitamin A and
why he traveled to Zürich to spend a day at
Potrykus’s lab to talk. Potrykus, impressed by
Haerlin’s intelligence, hoped to convince his
fellow countryman.

He failed. Although Greenpeace pledged
not to sabotage field trials, it did launch an
aggressive campaign against golden rice.
It argued that the crop was an industry
PR ploy—seed company Syngenta was
involved in the project, the group pointed
out—designed to win over a skeptical public
and open the door to other GM crops.
Golden rice did not attack the underlying
problem of poverty, Greenpeace said;
besides, other, better solutions to vitamin A
deficiency existed.

Perhaps Greenpeace’s most effective
argument, however, was that golden rice simply wouldn’t work. The most successful
strain created in 2000 produced 1.6 micrograms of pro-vitamin A per gram of rice. At
that rate, an average 2-year-old would need
to eat 3 kilos of golden rice a day to reach the
recommended daily intake, Greenpeace said,
and a breastfeeding mother more than 6 kilos.
To drive the point home, an activist in the
Philippines sat down behind a giant mound
of golden rice during a press conference.
“Fool’s gold,” Greenpeace called it.
A photo of the event, which quickly
found its way around the world, still makes
Haerlin chuckle—and it still makes
Potrykus angry. Greenpeace assumed that
children had to get all of their vitamin A
from rice, which was unrealistic; it also
ignored the fact, says Potrykus, that even
half the recommended intake may prevent
malnutrition. And Greenpeace assumed that
the uptake of beta carotene by the human gut
and its conversion into vitamin A were quite
inefficient, resulting in one vitamin molecule for every 12 molecules of beta carotene.
Nobody knew the true rate at the time, but a
recent, soon-to-be-published study among
healthy volunteers who ate cooked golden
rice, led by Robert Russell of Tufts University in Boston, suggests that it’s more like
one for every three or four. “That’s really
quite good,” says Russell, who
supports the golden rice
project. (A similar study is
planned among people with
marginal vitamin A def iciency in Asia.)
Haerlin says his calculations were based on the best
data at the time. But even if
they were correct, Potrykus
says, the first golden rice was
just a proof of principle.
Greenpeace might as well
have blamed the Wright brothers for not building a transatlantic airplane, he says.

The low beta-carotene yield
would eventually be tackled
by Syngenta—even though
Potrykus resented the way the
company got involved. Between 1996 and
1999, Beyer’s lab received funding through a
European Commission contract that also
included agrochemical giant Zeneca (called
AstraZeneca after a merger in 1999). Under
the program’s rules, any benefits had to be
shared by the signers. AstraZeneca had not
worked on golden rice per se, Potrykus says,
but the company claimed a share of
that intellectual property anyway; it was interested in
developing the technology commercially, for
instance in health
foods, says Potrykus,
who was initially
“furious” that a big
corporation now had
a say in his project.
David Lawrence
has a different take
on those events: At
the time, AstraZeneca
primarily wanted to support the humanitarian
development of golden
rice, says the cur rent
head of research at Syngenta; the company didn’t
have any commercial plans.
(AstraZeneca’s agribusiness division
merged with that of Novartis to form Syngenta in 2000.) But whoever’s right, the
move proved a blessing in disguise, Potrykus
now says. At Syngenta, he found a new partner in Adrian Dubock, a bubbly, fast-talking Brit with experience in patents, product
development, regulation, and marketing—
subjects Potrykus and Beyer admit they
were clueless about.

Dubock helped work out a deal in which
Syngenta could develop golden rice commercially, but farmers in developing countries who make less than $10,000 a year
could get it for free. He also helped solve
patent problems with several other companies. Dubock retired from Syngenta in 2007
but remains involved as a member of the
Golden Rice Humanitarian Board, a group
Potrykus chairs. “Without him, the project
would have ended already,” Potrykus says.
But perhaps most important, Syngenta
scientists replaced a daffodil gene with a
maize gene, thus creating a new version of
golden rice, dubbed GR2, that produces up to
23 times more beta carotene in its seeds.
Even with the one-in-12 conversion factor,
that meant 72 grams of dry rice per day
would suffice for a child, the company’s scientists said in 2005. A 2006 paper by Alexander Stein of the University of Hohenheim in
Stuttgart, Germany, estimated that the rice
could have a major public health impact at a
reasonable cost.

Those results didn’t convince the skeptics. Real-world studies are still lacking,
says WHO malnutrition expert Francesco
Branca, noting that it’s unclear
how many people will plant,
buy, and eat golden rice.
He says giving out
supplements, fortifying existing foods
with vitamin A, and
teaching people to
grow carrots or certain leafy vegetables are, for now,
more promising ways
to fight the problem.

A golden future?
Today, the debate about
golden rice has quieted
down, in part because its
inventors are keeping a low
profile. Syngenta stopped
its research on golden rice
and licensed the rights to
GR2 to the humanitarian board on World
Food Day in 2004; given consumers’distrust,
there was no money in it, says Lawrence.
Most golden rice work is now taking place at
six labs in the Philippines, India, and Vietnam, the countries chosen as the best candidates for the crop’s launch.

Although Potrykus has
retired, Peter Beyer is
still working on golden
rice at the University
of Freiburg.
There’s a long way to go. Both the original
golden rice, now called GR1, and GR2 were
created with Japonica cultivars that are scientists’ favorites but fare poorly in Asian fields.

Researchers are now backcrossing seven GR1
and GR2 lines with the long-grained, nonsticky Indica varieties popular among Asia’s
farmers. In early April, researchers at the
International Rice Research Institute in the
Philippines finally started a field trial with a
GR1 backcrossed into a widely used Indica
variety called IR64—the first field trial ever
in Asia. (The only other outdoor studies
were two done in Louisiana in
2004 and 2005.) The new varieties must not only produce
enough beta carotene but also pass
muster in terms of yield, seed
quality, and appearance.
The project could have been
much further along, Potrykus says,
if there weren’t so many rules governing GM crops that make little
sense. Conventional breeders can
bombard plant cells with chemicals
and radiation to create useful
mutants without having to check
how it affects their DNA; a GM
insertion must be “clean”—that is,
the extra genes must sit neatly in a
row without disrupting other
genes—which adds months or even
years to the lab work. Because field
trials take long to get approved,
researchers have been confined to
greenhouses, in which they have
trouble growing the large numbers
required for breeding and feeding
studies. These requirements have
caused “year after year of delays,”
Potrykus complains.

Even if field trials are successful, there are no guarantees that
golden rice will eventually be
approved in the target countries.
Use of other GM crops, such as Bt cotton, has
exploded in Asia in recent years (see infographic, p. 466). But GM rice has languished.
In India and China, regulatory agencies have
shied away from approving insect-resistant GM
rice despite extensive testing. “The expectation
is that they will [be approved] eventually,” says
Toenniessen, “but it’s a major decision for any
Asian country.” Thailand, a major rice exporter,
has decided to steer clear of GM rice altogether.
Kavitha Kuruganti of the Centre for Sustainable Agriculture, an anti-GM group in
Hyderabad, India, promises a major battle
should golden rice head to the market in India.
She thinks that the crop is unnecessary and
probably unsafe to eat and that a massive switch
would reduce diversity and threaten India’s
food security. “We will try to organize a broad
public debate,” she says.

Not worth funding?
Whether justified or not, the turmoil over
golden rice has shaped other efforts to improve
the nutritional value of crops. Take HarvestPlus. With a $14 million annual budget that targets 12 crops, it aims to boost levels of three
key nutrients: vitamin A, iron, and zinc. It
relies almost entirely on conventional breeding—which has Greenpeace’s blessing—
because it wants to have an impact fast, says
Bouis, the director. What little GM technology HarvestPlus supports is a “hedge,” in
case the political and regulatory climates shift.
But in plants that have little or no natural
ability to produce a nutrient, breeders
have nothing to work with. Thus, vitamin
A–enriched non-GM rice and sorghum are
essentially off the table, says Bouis, as is
boosting zinc and iron in sweet potatoes and
cassava. Iron in rice is a question mark.
The uncertainty about the future of GM
foods also tends to scare off the financial
donors on which programs like HarvestPlus
depend. Rockefeller, for instance, is frustrated
that a GM rice whose field trials it helped pay
for in China is stalled, says Toenniessen. “To
avoid making the decision to approve it, the
Chinese keep asking for more field trials,” he
says. “In the end, that becomes a foolish use
of our funds.”

The only charity still investing massively in
GM crops with enhanced nutritional value is
the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
Through its Grand Challenges in Global Health
initiative, it is spending more than
$36 million to support not only
golden rice but also GM cassava,
sorghum, and bananas. The foundation declined to comment for this
story. But the researchers it supports say that they are optimistic
that their products will make it
through the pipeline.

James Dale of Queensland
University of Technology in Brisbane, Australia, who heads a project to add iron, vitamin A, and
vitamin E to bananas, says he has
learned several lessons from
golden rice, including the importance of local “ownership”—
which is why he has teamed up
with researchers in Kampala.
“This will be a Ugandan banana
made by Ugandans,” he says.
Not that this mollifies opponents. Greenpeace will fight to
keep GM bananas, cassava, and
sorghum from poor countries’
fields, just as it will keep opposing golden rice, says Janet Cotter
of Greenpeace’s Science Unit
in London.

Battle-scarred, Potrykus says he
hasn’t given up hope that the regulatory system can be overhauled so
that GM technology can benefit the poor. He
believes a massive, multimillion-dollar information campaign might help convert the public.

He has tried in vain to contact Bill Gates in hopes
of tapping his wealth for such a media blitz.
He also wrote the late Pope John Paul II to
ask for support for golden rice. “You know the
definition of an optimist?” he jokes: “Someone
who’s asking the church for money.” His Holiness declined, but Potrykus was invited to join the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, where he
hopes to convene a meeting on golden rice
next year—the 10th anniversary of his tarnished invention.





Anyway that was from Science magazine, a fairly informal primer from the other viewpoint.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
15 Jan 13 UTC
The chief reason it is a boondoggle is that no one in Asia wants to grow it, and there are much simpler conventional ways to tackle vitamin A issues.

GM tech should be focusing not on nutritional deficiencies that have known solutions, but on increasing yields from the effects of climate change and reducing environmental impact, like erosion, chemical runoff, or depletion of groundwater. Yet we see very little of that, it's either the token golden rice or roundup ready corn.

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Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
Why is the forum so slow to load?
Lately it's been taking forever with everything. I demand more speed. I'm an American, and I pay my taxes.
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Conservative Man (100 D)
10 Jan 13 UTC
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Please pray for my mom
For those of you who believe in God, or, hell, those of you who don't if you're willing, please pray for my mom. If you remember my post from a week ago, she had a brain aneurysm, and now the pressure in her brain is increasing and she is probably going to die. So please pray.
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