Girl means child. Boy means child. Female youths aged 13-17 are young women. 18+ are women. This is the respect they deserve. I don't really care if people's friends use bitch, chick or girl with each other. Infantilizing people is not ok. Sexist language permeates society to such a degree that victims become complicit in continuing it. It's not really a legitimate excuse, really, that because some women use it then adult women can be called 'girl' now.

But we had this discussion before and people went apeshit about it. I didn't want to delve into gender theory here. Suffice to say I found the rape/sex objectificaton aspect of your comment to be more unsavory.

I like dude and dudette, Dudes, and dudettes! Come on up and see the show!

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. We're so glad you could attend. Come inside. Come inside.

I endorse people referring to adult females as girls because it means my habit of referring to females over 18 as women makes me look particularly smooth. I've had many women over the years incredibly impressed with me dropping that in conversation (and not for the point of doing it, it's just what I do), and I don't think I'd be as impressive if it were common.

In germany we don't hit little girls

Yes, in a world where being a crass, crude asshole to women is socially acceptable, treating people with basic respect gets unwarranted praise. That's depressing more than anything.

No, I know exactly where you're coming from.

But as I went through my life actually catching myself from saying girl I began to see that this one is very, very, contrived and has become part of normal speech in a big big way.

Calling an 18 year old female a woman to her face in casual context is seen as very, very weird, by everyone involved. So I started asking around about it and lo and behold, indeed, young women don't like being called women. They want to be called girls.

In my mind, "girl" now means two things - a child, like you say, but also an older, but still young, sexually mature female. 16 y/o girl, 19 y/o girl, that kind of thing.

Just as "guy" pretty much means that same thing for males. It's a term that you get applied to you in adolescence and gradually grow out of. Not like boy and the other meaning of girl, which really does mean child.

Which is why it would be rude to say "good girl." It's a fine line, this is true. But I've pretty much just decided that as long as I can avoid calling 15-25 y/o males "men" anymore than I call females in that range "women" then it's okay to call them girls.

Also, I don't know about you Putin, but I find that the usage of girl is finally falling off to an acceptable level. In the old days, it seems, woman were called girls all the way up to their late thirties, or more. That *is* infantilizing.

It's all about context. If I walk into a room of beautiful 20 year old female models and say "okay girls, let's go get dressed" or something, that's belittling and creepy. But if I'm talking with a friend of mine and she's stressing about her grades and I say "hey don't worry about it, you're fine. You're a smart girl."

This has the same meaning as "You're a smart guy," which is to say, basically neutral. It's sort of casual, and implies youth. That's about it.

So I stand by my remark. I take language seriously as well, but I don't think I did anything wrong.

Also I don't see rape/sex objectification in a person's attempt to get laid, have "wingmen", or anything else. I also care a lot about rape culture, but once again I stand by what I said because quite frankly trying to get in a girl's pants is not a crime nor is it abnormal or delinquent.

A "support hold" sounded a lot like asking someone to hold a girl down so you could rape her. I know that's not what you were intending, but it came out that way.

I don't call women "woman" to their face often (I usually use "you" or their name), it's usually like..."this woman from my sister floor" when I was in college and such. I never had someone react negatively to that.

Thucy, girl, stop using that context-based argument. It's all black and white, you know.

Wow. This thread was funny and light-hearted last time I logged in.

That said, "my campaign to sleep with a French girl" does rather remind me of a previous thread about the comedic/casual use of the word 'rape'.

Hole. Dig. Dig. Dig.

Yeah, sorry to interrupt your douche-fest. Hilarious as repetitive pee jokes are.

@SD - Thucy said NOT a support hold. Can you guys actually get straight what he said before giving him baseless shit about it? Gimme a break.

I also have to second that last post. My female peers are in their late teens/early 20s. Quite a few of them treat men that refer to them as "women" worse for doing so, avoiding them like they're strange and calling them "creepers" and other bullshit for... treating them respectfully.

Why? Because they're immature. I'd call them "girls" even if they demanded to be called "women." And I'd call immature boys boys whether they're 15 or 21 or 50. You don't get me to respect you as an adult at an arbitrary age line, you get it by acting like an adult. And if you act like a child, I don't care what your sex is or what your age is, I'm going to refer to you as a child. That's not misogyny or misandry. That's simply preserving the sanctity and dignity of adulthood by not insulting it with inclusion of childish brats.

*Thucy's last post.

Ladies, Gentlemen, guys, girls,
I recommend we continue the party as if nothing ever happened. Who's up for a good glass of unpretentious wine?

*girls, guys

fuck you redhouse "ladies" is sleazy in one context so you're NEVER EVER allowed to use it in any context ever. misogynist pig.

He was still making a joke about support holds, but continue being outraged and obtuse as usual, PE.

"Support move, not hold, I should mention. lol"

try again

You can always count on PE to miss the point entirely, and you can always count on the bro-patrol to ignore the fact that I tried multiple times to stop this discussion before it began.

"I don't mean you have to help me pin her down, ROFL". Haha, see how that's somehow uncreepy?

You fucking STARTED THE CONVERSATION by calling out not-sexist comments and throwing a temper tantrum. Save the self-righteous crap.

The placement of the LOL makes the rapey support hold an occasion for mirth.

Putin, he didn't say that and it's pretty clear from his clarification that that's not what was going on at all.

SD, no, the placement of "lol" is clearly awkward laughter about the fact that he accidentally might have implied something rather bad. It's not joking about it.

"You can always count on PE to miss the point entirely"

Miss? You meant Mrs., right?

Right?

I've never seen lol as indicative of awkward laughing.

I expected no less than all-caps, heavy breathing from PE, who takes umbrage that anything be called out for being less than respectful, even in passing.

@Eden - Using "boy" to refer to a grown man is worse than using "girl" to refer to a female of collegiate age. "Boy" carries with it a racial connotation not found in "girl".

Well that's great and all, but it's definitely done on the internet all the time, and Thucy's clarifications, once again, demonstrated that he clearly wasn't joking about that at all, so you're still wrong.

"SD, no, the placement of "lol" is clearly awkward laughter about the fact that he accidentally might have implied something rather bad. It's not joking about it."

Yeah, buddy, sure it is.