Sargmacher, I wouldn't just smear SD unprovoked. Come on. You know me better than that. The guy may not be a native English speaker, but that doesn't stop other non-native English speakers here from not making a complete ass of themselves. I have literally never seen him, ever, not post something insulting or rude in a *single* message. I cannot attribute that to simply having inadequate mastery of English. He routinely acts like a jerk to everyone.

Don't you think that if so many people have received abuse from him, oftentimes for things which absolutely didn't warrant it (Poozer's PM example comes to mind, I remember asking him in PM why he kept attacking me in the game I linked and got yelled at, etc.), that there's *not* a double standard, that maybe we're calling him out for being an ass because *he's being an ass* instead of just piling on some random undeserving sucker for no reason?

@Poozer: Just to be clear, although I quoted Eden's words, my point was aimed at this entire thread and mostly at Lopt, not purely to Eden.

Oh, just seen your post on refresh Eden. Yeah, I wasn't meaning that you were leading a smear campaign - I meant Lopt - of course I know you better than not to do that. I was just quoting your words as your post was the most recent one when I arrived at the thread.

"that maybe we're calling him out for being an ass because *he's being an ass* instead of just piling on some random undeserving sucker for no reason?"

I agree that there is that possibility - obviously a lot of people feel annoyed with SplitDiplomat's style of play and treatment of other players. But I don't think this thread is particularly productive either.

Well, what do you propose we do to help him change his "style", or should we just except it and move on, not having the right to complain about it?

To be clear, you did exact same as you accused us of, not being constructive only criticizing...

You remember me of a joke, wherever everyone jells at each other in a forum and finally one bad-ass walks in and says "SHUT THE FUCK UP, EVERYONE, don't be childish" placing himself on a throne above everyone else... Either join the frenzy, or shut the fuck up yourself..

Sarg is not going to complain about a player who helped him win a game, so obviously he's going to say it is unproductive.

Accept not except lopt and it isn't your job to change someone else. he learns or he doesn't and improves or doesn't. play passwords games if you don't want to.play him.

Lopt has every right to shame SD publicly and enjoy the games he likes to play. Mute the thread if you don't agree. Two can play at this stupid choice game.

"Sarg is not going to complain about a player who helped him win a game, so obviously he's going to say it is unproductive."

Putin, I think that's unfair. Why do you need to wade into this and make a problem with me? I've never said anything to you.

I worked hard to win that game - I think SD was a very small part of it.

Right, so acknowledging SD's pathological need to engage in suicide tactics would diminish your victory. I'm just observing a fact.

I waded into this because I've played multiple games with SD and experienced the same thing.

"Accept not except lopt and it isn't your job to change someone else." Not sure if you are joking here :p?

And yea, I'm mildly dialectic.

Also, to be clear, I do not mean to diminish your victory, I congratulated you and I meant it, doesn't mean I can't think SD was largely to blame for it.

If he hadn't done what he had done I would have been stronger, meaning I would be more unattractive to Austria and he would look the other way, setting up some sort of stalemate.

Not joking about it not being your job. There is no right and wrong way to play as long as he has fun and doesn't break a site rule.

Lopt - you speculate that your opponent would have looked the other way, but he may have convinced someone else to fight on the other front and come after you anyhow. Speculation is conjecture and not fact.

"There is no right and wrong way to play as long as he has fun and doesn't break a site rule."

And there's nothing in the rules that say people can't publicly shame others for annoying tactics.

For example in that specific game, if France had been held up a little bit longer, he would have appeared less of a threat and Austria may still have attacked you in the same way.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but particularly in these live games, its impossible to tell what might have happened.

I like how we sanction people playing like dicks, but not people calling other people out for it.

Why is it y'all's job to change Lopt's behavior on the forum? He's not breaking a site rule and presumably enjoying being able to vent. You even have better options for "dealing with" Lopt (muting) than Lopt has for "dealing with" SplitDiplomat (essentially refusing to play any non-passworded games). So why are y'all attacking Lopt, again? The guy's venting, and maybe even doing a service to players unaware of SD's shitty behavior.

I thought it was funny because you corrected my spelling and then proceeded to say that it's not anyones job to change someone else..

And yes, speculation is just that, speculation. That doesn't mean it doesn't hold any merits. A lot of things are first speculated before proven. Also it was GB, so convincing someone to do so, would be quite hard. And if not for the fact of not weakening me, how about handing over his entire home continent without a fight?

Oh, the *grammar* correction was just me being funny and pedantic at the same time. Just like correcting your use of spelling when it was actually a grammatical error.

Anytime anybody brings up some in-game tactical stupidity, there is always a chorus of people, led by Draugnar, who will insist that it's not a rules violation so therefore people can talk about it. And then people wonder why there aren't more diplomacy threads. Because there's a legion of people who try to intimidate anyone who complains about somebody's play.

*can't

"Oh, the *grammar* correction was just me being funny and pedantic at the same time."

You're not funny.

Also, it was not a grammatical error, because I actually meant to type accept, I just misspelled it into except, as I said, I'm dialectic..

@Eden - the difference is the forums are supposed to be community moderated. Games are up to the individual to.play how they see fit. And I'm not trying to correct him, just pointing out we can't correct this other player, only time and experience can.

Ok. But it was more me being pedantic, lopt. Nothing personal, just a flaw of my own.

Honestly, I can accept SD's playing strategy, what I do not agree with is that he will not agree to a cancel/draw if an immediate CD/NMR benefits him directly (aka a neighbor of his), but he will agree to the draw/cancel if the CD/NMR does not benefit him, but benefits the other players in the game (ex. he is Turkey and England CD's). That is the sort of play that I find unacceptable. To me that is a complete breech of live game etiquette.

All the more reason to organize private passwords games. What ever happened to the 150cc club?

I was in a live Ancient Med game with him recently. His neighbor on one side CD, and only he and I voted Draw/Cancel. He proceeded to kick the other major beneficiary's ass, and I was quite please.

Glad it isn't always the case, Ghug.

Draug - beats me, but I do concur with your statement.