"Well, you're kind of a douche then.

I still don't see why you feel the need to give up your citizenship."

He's not a douche just because he wants to live somewhere else...

A bit too much "'mericah, fuck ya!" behind that statement...

But I do agree with the second part: if you're eligible for multiple for multiple citizenships, why toss the US one? What if you need/want it again someday (even if you don't think you will, just for the sake of argument...why toss it?

And if you do toss it--any chance you could toss it the way of a friend of mine, great person, but her visa's run out and she wants to be a citizen, but doesn't want to go back to mexico, she's so tied into college and a job right now, and friends...yep, this is So. California all right!) :p

Oh--

And what job is it, Geo, that you have more of a chance with in Germany?

Anyone who doesn't like the United States should leave.
I love the America bashers.
We have 38 million foreign born residents.
We have 25% of the world's economy.
We have the freest speech on the face of the earth.
We have the most open society anywhere.
The Pax Americana has produced explosive worldwide growth in the last half century.
Blah blah blah on engineers leaving hurt the US.
Blah blah blah on other countries are simply better.
Japan, China, Germany, and the rest wish they could be the dynamic economy and society of the United States, but they all come up short.
Haters hate, that's all there is too it.

^
THAT is DEFINITELY way to "AMERICAH--FUCK YA!"

:/

And "The Pax Americana?"

WE ARE NOT THE ROMAN EMPIRE.

WE DO NOT WANT TO BE THE ROMAN EMPIRE.

ASK THE BRITISH EMPIRE AND GERMAN EMPIRE AND FRENCH EMPIRE AND--SHOCKER!=--ROMAN EMPIRE HOW BEING THE ROMAN EMPIRE WENT.

And HERMAN CAIN IS AN IDIOT.

I'm sorry, but once you make the statement that you hate long bills so much you'd like them limited to three pages, you officially start sounding like a backwoods yokel who thinks running the guvrnm'nt is as easy as that...

You officially forfeit your right to be called an intelligent statesman.

I'm sorry, but 2700 pages MAY be long--and long or no, I'd like to think my Congressmen would be able to READ LONG BITS OF PAPER...and yeah, I know the whole "We had no time" bit, fine, not contesting that, but give me a break, are you really saying that even with adequate time you can't read a long article for the amount of moeny and power you get?--but it's sometimes kinda...

Necessary.

See, things like massive infastructure and government overhaul as well as declarations of war--remember when we used to actually issue thoe, rather than just bomb whoever pissed us off that morning?--sort of require more than three pages.



These are not book reports, Herman Cain.

And, frankly, I'd like to see if you can WRITE a report...OR read a book (and no, the 7-page ones with pop-ups and pictures don't count, it's OK, I have a very nice one, right here, it's a lovely story, I think you'll like it, it's called "Great Expectations," it's by this new up and comer named Chuck Dickens...)

Geofram & Maganese.
You come to "America" to study. Why didn't you study in Germany? America sucks right?
You talk about engineers working for American companies overseas? Why don't they work for non-American companies overseas?
You two sound just like a photographer I know from Denmark.
He pisses and moans about how great Denmark is and how America sucks.
He goes home for six weeks every summer.
Where does he spend the other 46 weeks?
In the states.
It's friggin hilarious.

If you naturalize as a citizen in any country as a US citizen you are obliged under US law to renounce your citizenship. Dual citizenship can only be had in the US by virtue of your birth. Other countries would allow it if the US would allow it but they don't.

I should know, I have looked at Ghanaian citizenship. Probably won't do it though but it's crossed my mind several times. I don't see what's douche-y about it it's not as though I want America to fail or something.

Why Ghana, Thucy? 8/

Ghana is the future of West Africa

Yeah but...

Why do you care about Africa, don't you live in TX?

And it's a beautiful country full of wonderful people.

And I have genuine undying respect for the selflessness of the Ghanaian military.

Yeah I live in Texas, what difference should that make?

@Tettleton's Chew - "... dynamic economy ..." - I hate to burst your bubble but and the US owes 1.1 TRILLION dollars to China and 900 BILLION dollars to Japan. Hell, you owe 325 billion dollars to us (the UK).

Putting it another way, and ignoring China and Japan, every man woman and child in the US owes about $1000 each to the UK. As you outnumber us 5 to one that means you and 4 friends owe me $1000 each. Can I have my money back please?

We have the freest speech on the face of the earth.
We have the most open society anywhere. - Really? That is simply not true Tettleton's Chew. I reject your reality and substitute...actual reality.

Why does it matter who owns the company? It's an international corporation and the employees are getting paid more, paying less taxes, and seeing more done with those taxes.

I came to the US for separate reasons, but I stayed because the education is cheap.
Your friend is a photographer. That is not a job in the realm of this discussion. Though Denmark compared to the US: Denmark wins hands down.

@Thucy. You are quite wrong. There are many exceptions in matters of dual nationality. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html More often than not, the person in question remains a citizen of the US unless they're naturalising in a non-allied country.

" However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship."

@obi

It isn't that I have more of a chance of the job in Germany. It's the same job with the same company, just pays more.

Right. Notice the "may" and required "intention to give up U.S. citizenship."
I've not once heard of a coworker, friend, or colleague that naturalised in any of the EU, Canada, or Japan (and there have been many) that had to renounce their US citizenship. All you do is get permission first and say the pledge of allegiance.

You wanted an Afrikan citizenship. Huge difference.

Also being Canadian I can't vote obviously, but I would vote for Obama.

Ah. Well same difference then. I would be proud to be able to become a Ghanaian but American citizenship is a valuable thing - I wouldn't give it up lightly.

@Thucy:

Well, again, distance plays a role, generally, in how much we care...'

I care a lot about what happens in the US, and in Europe and Canada, because it's part of the Western World and there's cultural sites and places there I care about and my family came from Eastern Europe, and Israel/Palestine because I'm Jewish ethnically and would like the Israelis to stop acting like dicks and making Zionists and Jews alike look bad and mistreating the Palestinians...

But do I really care about what happens in Zimbabwe?

...If they had an accident, I'd be empathetic, but as it's thousands of miles away, and I have more immediate concerns and closer ones at that...

The same goes for Taiwan--sucks, but things suck here, too, and in the Middle East, and those are closer to home for me, so that gets my attention.



So--why does Ghana, somewhere so far away, have your attention to such a degree?

Speaker to Aliens, I guess you don't realize that China invested $1 Trillion in the US. Nobody made China buy $1 Trillion of US bonds. The Chinese could invest anywhere they want.
I guess you don't realize the US economy is three times as big as China's.
China is already loses its competitive advantage to Vietnam and Mexico among others.
There are 500 million of the poorest of the poor in China. That's more than one and a half impoverished Chinese for every American.
Per capita income in the United States is eight times higher than China.
Unmasking America haters as fools is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

You're the one that mentioned American companies Geofram, not me.
Denmark wins over America hands down. That's a funny one.
I should let you hear the stories of discrimination his wife faced in Denmark.
Talk about a tribal, bigoted society. That's Denmark in a nutshell.
There motto should be "come visit Denmark, but get the fuck out if you want a job and a life here, Denmark is only for Danes!"
Thanks for the laugh Geofram.
His wife hates the fucking country.
When their son had a hernia the Danes fixed it.
The problem is hernias on young kids come in twos usually.
Of course the kid got the second hernia and she had it fixed in America.
The American doctor said it was standard procedure to fix both at the same time.
Keep telling me about Denmar Geofram.

Have you ever left your podunk oklahoma town to even understand the fox news memo points you're spouting?

Do you know what China invested in? They invested in owning your steel mills, your wind farms, your oil pipelines, your solar cells They invested in businesses that now let them subvert tariffs. They're importing and controlling more and more of what the US needs to survive and the US government is encouraging it!

Do you even understand what the "size" of an economy means? China's economy is exploding at an unfathomable rate. And don't forget how much of America they own. This whole idea that China's going to ask for their money back is horseshit. They got an excellent deal for their money and will continue to literally buy the infrastructure and what little manufacturing is left to their heart's content.

There being poor people in China doesn't matter in this discussion, the country and its political, financial, and corporate leaders matter.

So the husband loves Denmark even though his wife faced horrible discrimination and his son was poorly treated for a serious injury? That makes sense.

Your one friend, who's mental worth is questioned just for having known you, does not define an entire country. I have been to Denmark. I have friends that are Danes. I have friends in neighbouring countries. I have family in neighbouring countries. They all think Denmark is swell.

Denmark has one of the most open policies on freedom of expression/press/speech. It's one of the richest countries on the planet. Has an insane standard of living. Is virtually crime free. Their welfare system is one all others should aspire to. Danes are notoriously cheerful and happy with Denmark being ranked as one of the best places to work. Minimum 6 weeks paid vacation ffs, has extremely high wages, great working conditions, and at one point and still close, the world's lowest unemployment rate.

I live in Los Angeles moron.
Let it out Geofram.
America's steel mills shut down in the 1970's by the way. Type in "rust belt" on a google search since your comprehension of American history is inadequate.
All the bull shit you are spewing about China now was spewed about Germany and Japan in the 70's and 80's.
Japan was going to pass the US. Germay was going to pass the US. China is going to pass the US.
I guess you don't realize how many more years China has to sustain an 7-10% growth rate to pass the US, and that is assuming the US is completely stagnant. (It's harly unfathomable)
For an even more impressive historical example of sustained growth look at the United States from 1865-1929. Probably the most impressive story of industrial growth the modern world has seen.
The US won't be stagnant after Obama joins the unemployment line in 2012.
"The poor in China don't matter in the discussion."
I've rarely read a more revealing quote of ignorance on this forum and I've read a bunch.
500 million dirt poor people don't figure into the equation? The Chinese leadership sure thinks so.

Denmark is well for Danes dummy. Denmark isn't swell for anyone living there who isn't Danish and wants a life and a career. It's funny that you would know so many people there and be so ignorant of the country. Stupid about America and Denmark both. I don't think so. Just the utter ignorance of youth.

Since the early 70’s, Denmark has all but closed its gates to immigration, allowing only those people who are granted political asylum, those who have direct family members living in Denmark and those who have special qualifications. Many Danes worry that their high tax payments might go into unemployment checks of recent immigrants--people who are not even “Danish”. Others feel that the unique culture of their country would be forever lost with too much foreign influence

Last year China bought the Mississippi Steel Co. at a scalding price and has already made 10x the investment selling the US steel in the year alone. By buying the company, they subvert millions and millions of tariff penalties.

Do you think that all growth is equal growth? Look at the industries that America dominates. Now look at the industries that China dominates. Did you notice that all the important ones are on the China side?
I don't care where you live, you're a pure bred American idiot.

Good for Denmark at keeping people out. They've discovered how to NOT run a great country into the ground.