Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 1272 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Thucydides (864 D(B))
04 Aug 15 UTC
GRE scores
What's a good score? Share your score too, if you feel comfortable. I just took the test this morning
65 replies
Open
alulahello (0 DX)
12 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
halloween costumes 2015
I know, 3 months early blahblah. But I'm bored and I want to talk about Halloween.
Some people are into crazy Costumes and go all out to make them. Brainstrom ideas for costumes and how to make/obtain them. What are you thinking of going as?
1 reply
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
11 Aug 15 UTC
Opposite Gender Friends leads to Lower Academic Performance
Interesting paper I'm reading right now. Not completely done with it, but its methodology seems sound.

http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/app.20140030
37 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
12 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
this is interesting--watch the video
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/08/10/everyone-fails-to-ride-this-bike-you-would-too-this-is-what-it-tells-us-about-the-brain/
6 replies
Open
P13ANATOR (100 D)
12 Aug 15 UTC
Hi I am new, quick question
I am starting a game with some friends, can you play with less than 7 people? If so, is anything different compared to a full game? Thanks :-)
8 replies
Open
ND (879 D)
20 Jul 15 UTC
(+12)
MX: All Star Game
See inside for details
5191 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
10 Aug 15 UTC
MAFIA XI: Confirmations
I know some people may not realize sign up thread is also confirmation thread so let's make that ultra clear:
Starts 8/11/15, 6 PM EDT
140 replies
Open
guak (3381 D)
11 Aug 15 UTC
When retards play gunboat
3 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
11 Aug 15 UTC
Fly Free My Baby :'(
I just sold my first computer, it was really old but i'll never forget its beauty. I never can think of things to bring on trips, but my computer was my best possession. It was like a Mac -1... you know, pre-internet
10 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
10 Aug 15 UTC
Ferguson
Apparently the anniversary of Mike Brown's death turned into a reenactment. Anyone know anything?
21 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2606 D(B))
04 Aug 15 UTC
2015 Gunboat Tournament Ideas
See inside.
57 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
10 Aug 15 UTC
Cheap Gunboats
3 games, 10 point, 36hr, WTA, HDV, Anon
First come, first served...
15 replies
Open
ghug (5068 D(B))
29 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Pacific Northwest FTF
I've only ever played FTF with people who don't really care about the game and want to be done after a year, and I always feel a twinge of jealousy when I sew those people having fun playing in real life on that crappy coast across the country. This is just a post to see who might be interested in getting something set up on this side of the country. I'm in the Seattle area.
30 replies
Open
Hlud (115 D)
10 Aug 15 UTC
Monday Evening Live-2
I'm trying to join Monday Evening Live-2 starting in half an hour, as it only shows 6 current players, but only gives me the option to spectate. Why is this? My RR is 100%
8 replies
Open
TrPrado (461 D)
05 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
Conundrum
So the people who make the schedules at my school are kinda dumb. I signed up for both AP Micro/Macroeconomics and AP European History. Only one class of each is being offered. And they happen to be the same hour. So I need to drop one and pick up some other course. I really don't know, so what (preferably AP) course would you suggest for me to take instead of AP Micro/Macroeconomics (because there's no chance I'll drop Euro)?
132 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
07 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
DIPCON @ Philadelphia Massacre - Live
I'm risking life and limb to bring you guys the latest news all weekend and all tournament long.
108 replies
Open
Check_mate (100 D)
03 May 15 UTC
(+4)
Not "Who am I?", but WHERE am I?
Have some time to kill. Ask yes/no questions to guess WHERE I am. If you guess right you go next. If you guess wrong you're out for the rest of the round.
1022 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
07 Jul 15 UTC
MAFIA XI: Sign-ups
MAFIA XI: Sign-ups
374 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
04 Aug 15 UTC
The dreams of solo--
Friends and enemies are welcome. 36 hour wta anon 50pt. Who wants action?
34 replies
Open
Check_mate (100 D)
10 Aug 15 UTC
Cheating accusations
Without mentioning names or game ID's, can I please clarify something.

Making cheating accusations via in-game global press is not allowed, right? The correct procedure being to email the mods who will investigate?
6 replies
Open
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
08 Aug 15 UTC
New Italian strategy article
The army in Venice should go to Piedmont.

(with apologies to Chris Martin)
29 replies
Open
MrcsAurelius (3051 D(B))
23 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Setting up a game
Hi, I have been absent for three years. Its startin' to itch, as Diplomacy remains my favorite board game! Want to play a game with a friend of mine who also hasn't played for a long while.
81 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
I'm still alive
Sorry about that.
13 replies
Open
Octavious (2701 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
Clause IV
The people's flag is deepest red, or at least it could be. Comrade Corbyn has been suggesting he could bring back clause IV into the Labour Party constitution. I'm interesting in what it sounds like to an international audience.
5 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
My Cat's name is Shadow!!! EOG
This is the difficulty of playing a stalemate line, and I done goofed.
gameID=165777
1 reply
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
I got a cat
she is shadow
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CL8At_SUwAAl-74.jpg
8 replies
Open
CMurder (749 D)
07 Aug 15 UTC
Getting Germany every single game
Hi everybody, I'd like to ask if anyone has experience with an account getting a certain country every single game. One of my friends who I've played in several games against has drawn Germany out of the pot every single time. We're onto the fifth time out of 5 games he's gotten Germany.

I'd put it up to chance but we've reached 5 sigma and are on our way to 6. Thoughts?
19 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
08 Aug 15 UTC
THE PREMIER LEAGUE IS BACK!!!
Join a Modern Live game as we watch Spurs and United fight it out, followed by the Premier League Season!!!
gameID=165741
Come on soccer nerds, you'll be on your labtop checking stats so just join it and stop pretending.
11 replies
Open
OutsideSmoker27 (204 D)
04 Aug 15 UTC
Stop the solo or tighten up the draw?
Which is more important, in your opinion?
65 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
01 Mar 15 UTC
(+3)
The School of War - Study Group of Winter 2015
This thread is for the Winter 2015 Study Group of the School of War. Please be courteous to those running the game and respect any reasonable requests they may make. This semester the Study Group will be overseen by A_Tin_Can and goldfinger0303. gameID=155736
Page 2 of 9
FirstPreviousNextLast
 
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
05 Mar 15 UTC
Spring 1901:

The opening turn is always exciting! Thanks to the other commentators above. I'm particularly pleased to see that I don't really agree with Valis about what's important on this board - which should lead to some interesting discussion later on. And, I'm not sure that Goldie and I agree about Russia, either. Exciting!

In this commentary, I'd like to make the claim that "A bad opening is one that surprises your intended allies". I'm personally not a fan of 1901 betrayals, so I think I'd also say "a good opening is one that surprises no-one, yet still leaves you in a strong position" - although that's not the only way to get a good opening.

In my commentary, I tend to ask a lot of questions. These don't really require answers - they're just pointers to things I would think about were I in your position.

So, without access to press, let's have a look around this board (in no particular order):

England: England made the only opening that 100% ensures a build in 1901. With a northern opening like this one, there's always the question of whether Russia expected it or not. I also don't think very much is set in stone by this opening - as in, it's hard to see who your allies are just by reading the board this turn. I look forward to seeing where that army goes. The difficult thing with playing England is that it's hard not to upset SOMEONE in the fall, and you don't always get something by doing so.

France: Interesting choice for an opening. The support to Burgundy can indicate distrust of Germany, or it can indicate that you just didn't want to move Marseilles this turn. I tend to prefer this opening in gunboat, where you don't have an opportunity to discuss Burgundy with Germany. You're in a solid position - you have the opportunity to have some say over Belgium, and because England isn't in the channel, and Italy isn't in Piedmont, you're ensured two builds. Was Germany expecting you in Burgundy? And, were you expecting Italy in Tyrolia? I bet the answers to those questions decide your fall moves.

Germany: Your opening is very standard, and also not yet committal. You have the opportunity to decide whether Russia gets sweden, you can have some say over Belgium, or you can ensure that you get Holland.

However, one of your home centres is threatened by two foreign units, which is never a happy place to be in 1901. If I'm you, I'm focussing on whether or not I expected those units to be there. If you were expecting the units there, do you trust the reasons you've been given? If not, what can you do in press to reduce the threat? I don't want to influence you too much, so I might say more about this once the turn has gone through. An important question is - given what you can see from the openings - how does everyone want the board to look at the end of 1902, and what does this mean for their 1903 prospects?

Italy: Italy is my hands down favourite country to play. There are so many OPTIONS! And, you kind of have a free rein in 1901 to do what you like. This gets mentioned every time that Italy comes up on the forum, but there's pretty much nothing that the other countries can do if you attack them in 1901 - other than to tell you to go away.

Having said that, it's important not to screw things up. It's true that you only have one natural neutral centre, so regardless of if you get your 5th centre in 1901 or 1902, it has to come from a neighbour. Ideally you want your 5th centre to be one you're going to hold for the rest of the game.

The move to Tyr is interesting - without the backup of Rom->Ven, you'll have to back it up with Diplomacy. Or, as I'm sure everyone is already aware, France.

As a spectator, I'm wondering whether Germany and Austria were expecting your move to Tyr - I bet at least one of them wasn't. And if both weren't, then you'd better have a good reason. The caveat to my comment on openings is - "if a neighbour is surprising you in 1901, then they might not be a good choice for an ally".

Austria: Before I get to you, I want to talk a little bit generally - Perhaps controversially, I think there are very few opening moves that are outright poor in Diplomacy (maybe moves like Con h, Lon->Wales, St P->Fin, or other moves that don't progress the position). But I think there are a lot of moves that can be poor in context.

I really like your opening - high risk can lead to high reward. I'm assuming that you were expecting that Russia was leaving Galicia open. But, like Goldfinger, I want to know what your expectation of a high reward is. Put it another way - I like your opening - so long as you have a plan.

When I am constructing alliances in 1901, I want commitment from my allies. As England wanting to work on France, I might ask Germany to open to Burgundy. Or if I'm wanting to work with France on Germany, I might ask France to force Burgundy instead. However, the key word here is *commitment*. Russia DMZing Gal with you is great, and friendly, but it doesn't actually yet commit him against a common enemy together. Have a look in the East, and think about what you see between Russia and Turkey. Who is committing to what?

Secondly, your opening has left you very open to Italy. What has Italy done to make sure you're comfortable with him being in Tyr? Panicking unnecessarily here to cover Vie and Trieste will cost you big in terms of position - but not covering yourself if Italy *is* threatening will also cost you. Austria's primary strength is in diplomacy.

In general, I think you're in a good position - and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do. I'm particularly pleased to see no Gal bounce (and no Gal betrayal). I think most 1901 bounces tend to only help everyone else. Nice job.

Russia:

Your opening is very interesting! It's nice to see non-standard openings come out, especially in a SoW game. I tend to think that the standard openings are best, unless your press has given you some indication that a different opening is better. And, if you've been talking enough and gotten a good feel for your neighbours, then you should almost always have an indication for a better opening.

I really like your moves. They leave you in a strong position, you're able to choose to commit to an ally, and your moves appear to be backed up with (what I imagine to be) your discussions in press.

There are a couple of things that could happen with Armenia, and I think they both revolve around whether or not Turkey was expecting you to be there.

Turkey:

It's especially nice to see a Turkish opening that doesn't go Smy->Con. I'm going to get flak for this, but I think that Smy->Con isn't a particularly strong move for Turkey - it causes a bottleneck for your armies, prevents you slipping that fleet through to the Aeg, makes it very difficult to protect against a lepanto, and means that Austria and Russia both try to involve you in commitment games ("why don't I support you to Rum for two builds" / "why don't you bounce Austria in Serbia/Greece - you might get two builds"). So good job.

Your move to Ank is unconventional - it suggests the possibility that you knew Russia was moving to Arm. The question that everyone will be asking themselves is whether Russia TOLD you he was moving to Arm.

I'm especially interested to see what you do with Bulg this turn.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
05 Mar 15 UTC
No homework from me, but questions or comments welcome via PM.
Scmoo472 (1933 D)
05 Mar 15 UTC
Not game related question.. Sorry.

Am I allowed to write the EoG while I play? So that I can be more detailed about each phase? As it is an End of Game statement and all..
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
05 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
You're not just allowed to, but I highly encourage it.
"End of Game" merely means you do not post it, and DO NOT post it, until the end of the game.

I find the messaging system infernal for finding or understanding anything that is too old to be in the individual chat windows. Not to mention when a game lasts months, it makes much more sense to write down your thought process as it happens rather than retroactively (that may also be biased by knowing the result).
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
05 Mar 15 UTC
(+4)
Oh shit, this board is much more exciting!
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
05 Mar 15 UTC
+1 you heard it here first folks
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
05 Mar 15 UTC
(+2)
I just want to take a very brief moment to explain why moving to TYR is so exciting (and potentially disastrous). There are what we can call hard and soft corners of the board. A hard corner is obviously a country like Turkey or England, which sit literally on the corner of the board. In many ways, these countries have a great advantage because they have a limited number of fronts they need to defend against. To compensate for this, you will also find soft corners develop through the meta game. For instance, it is very rare for Austria and Germany to attack each other early, because by doing so they open up an entirely new front. Through the tacit agreement of creating a soft corner, they are able to compensate for their initially weaker appearing position. This is also common between Russia and Germany and Italy and Germany.

By moving to TYR in Spring 1901, this meta is broken, throwing a lot of things players usually take for granted into question. By no means is this bad. In fact, doing things can not only be fun, but give you a great advantage as the board tries to read what is going on. If you make a move like this, though, it's very important to understand what you are doing and why.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
05 Mar 15 UTC
(+2)
+1 abge.

I think this board really nicely illustrates abgemacht's point:

http://diplom.org/Online/maps/stdmap.gif
RAZ000 (272 D(G))
05 Mar 15 UTC
Posting for a star as well as to say that I enjoy Austria's and Russia's openings.
dyager_nh (619 D)
05 Mar 15 UTC
I must say this is the biggest set of unconventional moves I have ever seen on one board. I am most excited to see if my theories on whats happening matches what occurs in 1901
rmf (100 D)
05 Mar 15 UTC
Kinda interesting that Germany is in all three soft corner examples abgemacht gave.
The only other example (really) is Italy and France, I think, but maybe there is a case for more.

Fun set of opening moves here...got a theory about the east, excited to see if I'm right when the next turn goes through.
sportsnut109 (273 D)
06 Mar 15 UTC
Posting to star
Scmoo472 (1933 D)
08 Mar 15 UTC
Bump for Fall 1901 orders going through.
dyager_nh (619 D)
08 Mar 15 UTC
A three build Russia, 3 neutral SCs open, and a rogue Italian army.
Good to see the Study group is keeping with the tradition of being an unorthadox game.
DeathLlama8 (514 D)
08 Mar 15 UTC
I only have two builds.
ssorenn (0 DX)
08 Mar 15 UTC
He's counting your disbanded fleet
Scmoo472 (1933 D)
09 Mar 15 UTC
I will keep bumping this until commentary is given. =P
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
09 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
Lecture: Winter 1902

I'll be going and giving grades. Dividing it up into East and West theaters

The West

France - B+

France is looking very good with two builds and potentially no enemies (depending upon how press is). The bounce in Belgium could just be Germany and France cooperating to keep out England, and deferring on Belgium for 1901. Its a suboptimal outcome for both parties, but not entirely unheard of. Or, they both could have been anticipating English support to Belgium, in which case both were deceived (but France ends up in a much better position because of this). Or, France and England conspired together to deny Germany builds, with much of the heavy press being done by England to secure German unsupported moves to Bel and Hol.

Overall, France is in a flexible position, with options to go south, north, or east depending upon where he wants to make his allies. Germany probably hates him less than England, so there are lots of options on the table. Options are always a positive. Big question is whether you attempted to get Italy to move to Munich.

England - B-

I will repeat much of what I said for France, except things aren't as rosy for you. Your move to Holland is *much* more hostile than France's move, and commits Germany to move against you there in the next year.

I score you worse than France because you have more, closer enemies and less options. With the Jugg forming in the East, a hostile Russia is inevitable. Maybe not this year, but soon. That should be in your mind. You also are still uncertain of a French ally. He hasn't committed against Germany nearly as much as you have. Also by preventing Germany from being strong, you may have shrunk the size of the German pie you can claim if you and France follow through.

Germany - C

Rough year buddy. But hey, Italy didn't stab! Now is the time to press press press. E/F react to a Jugg in two ways: Knock out Germany ASAP, or form a triple. You want to go the triple route OR try to prevent hype about a Jugg from spreading. You may have done the right thing by not bouncing Russia in Sweden. Time will tell, but you can use that to your advantage. So get cracking! Still easy to recover from this start with the right attitude.

The East:
Now, this one was harder. I know who is in last, but I wasn't too sure about the middle.

Russia - B+

Now this is the same grade as I gave France, but I would definitely rank him above you. You have 3 builds, yay. But there's no time to celebrate. You have an ally in a weak position to your south, a very weak buffer Germany to your west, and enemy units in Galicia and Bohemia. There is going to be a lot of pressure on Warsaw and Rumania next year, and you'll need to manage that or you can lose what you got. Tactically, you're in a rough spot. Moving forward will range from difficult to impossible.

To be honest, I was tempted with grading you much lower....much much lower. In another **very possible** alternate world, you would be at 4 SC's, with Austria in Rumania and Italy on his way to back him up. That's a RIP Russia scenario. But its good that it worked out in the end. Just know that the target on your back is going to be a bit larger now.

Italy - B

I love, love the move to Bohemia. Its my favorite opening as Italy. Overall, not much to say about your position. The convoy was an excellent idea, given the position, but you must make decisions about using that fleet efficiently in the future. Also, you don't want to keep that army marooned too long.

Austria - B-

Well, a spot of bad luck there. Italy not moving on you is a definite plus. It puts you two in wonderful position moving forward. Covering your centers would've been catastrophic last year, so its goo that you did what you did.

I don't like prioritizing Serbia over Rum though. A support hold would've been much stronger than the bounce in Serbia. But, I can't blame you too much. Given every possible move scenario, your set of moves probably works out better more often than not. But given what was on the board, either R and T were hostile (in which case choose 1 enemy or the other. Don't fight both) or R and T were cooperating (in which case, you knew the Turkish fleet or Sev would be used to destroy Arm, leaving 1 support possible on Rum. If they used two supports, Rum retreats to Serbia). So, poor choice tactically there. You could've put a nail in the coffin of the Jugg from 1901. But, things are looking up this year, so there's plenty of room for optimism.

Turkey - C

Well, the small victories I suppose. The Russian fleet is destroyed, so you are marginally more secure to your north and the Jugg is much more potent in the north. However, this mainly benefits Russia, not you. Your fleet is out of position. Horribly so for a Jugg. I know it was the only way, but Aegean and Eastern Med are awfully exposed. You'll most likely lose both next year. Serbia is also out of the question. So, by doing this opening you've walled yourself into a corner with options and relegated your duty to sitting tight and waiting it out while your partner reaps the benefits in the north. Not too optimistic looking. Hopefully you can make some lemonade out of these lemons.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
09 Mar 15 UTC
Great post from Goldie. I won't have much to say to everyone, since he's already covered a lot of what I want to say.

I do want to talk a bit about the midgame (I know! We're not there yet, but bear with me). In an earlier SoW post, someone (PW, I think) defined the midgame as "when you and your ally have finished off your first target, and you're looking around for another". However, I think the end of 1901 is a great time to start thinking about the midgame, since it's the first time that we can start making realistic predictions about how that might look. Looking at this board in particular, I think we can see the following alliances forming:

* E/F are probably working on G
* I/A are probably working together against R/T

(as Goldie already mentioned, depending on what's happening in press, other things might be going on)

Now, let's assume for a moment that these alliances continue into 1904/5. How does the board look?

For each power, consider whether you *like* how that 1904 board looks. If you do, then you want to do everything you can to ensure that this alliance structure stays tight.

However, it's much more likely that you don't like the outcome of the board (very rarely does everything go your way in 1901). If this is the case, then before you write any press consider what changes you would make to the alliance structure to suit you. Do you want alliances to break? Or do you want alliances that aren't yet there to form?

As Russia in this game, do I want an E/F, an F/G or an E/G? Why/Why not? As Italy, what are the implications of the R/T and the F/G for me? Do I want to change either of those alliances? What alliances do I want to stay strong, and what alliances that don't yet exist do I want to form? The answers to these questions should inform your press, and I think this approach is a good way to start thinking about overall strategy.

England/France/Germany:

Not much to say that hasn't already been covered - in particular, I want to agree with Goldie that England doesn't have many options from this position. For England especially, I want you to be considering which centre is your next centre.

Goldie said: "E/F react to a Jugg in two ways: Knock out Germany ASAP, or form a triple". I agree with him that this is typically what happens, but I would also say that I think both are actually not very good options for stopping a juggernaut. I don't really want to say too much about this right now, but I would only be considering Goldie's options if I were only one of the western countries. I think the other two of them have better options. I hope to write more on that later, but I don't want to lay out a plan for things that have yet to happen.

Italy:

I feel like your moves were written by the board this turn, so nice job on picking up on that and following through. I think you did the right thing in not attacking Germany OR Austria. Be careful though - a common trap to fall into with Italy is being the "board balancer". This is a great way to (probably) survive until the draw with 4-5 centres, but it is a horrible way to solo, or get a certain draw. No matter what you do with your units this turn, make sure you're thinking about where your next centre comes from- including when and why.

Austria:

You had lots of interesting options in press -for example, even though it was clear that Russia and Turkey were likely to work together (why else did Smy go to Ank and not Arm), then you can pitch to Turkey that he works with you against Russia once that fleet is gone. And there are lots of alternative options too. I'm assuming that you tried/are trying these things and failed. Sometimes you can't break alliances in press, so you have to rely on your moves to unbalance the alliance. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I don't like your moves this turn:

Your move to Serbia has the possibility of denying you a build (which is what happened). Although Goldie said you should protect Rum (and that's a good option), I also think it's reasonable to not protect Rum, as long as you're getting a better position out of it. However, moving to Serb isn't really a better position. Consider - if you'd ordered Bud->Gal instead, you and Italy would have a solid position against the upcoming build in Warsaw, and you'd have a unit in Bulg from the retreat. Two builds, and a position which - while not great - can be used to destabilise the alliance. Given your forced retreat to Gal, this position is almost the same, but you'd have another build if you'd just moved Bud->Gal to start with.

If you're interested, have a read of uclabb's excellent commentary to Austria in 1902 or 3 of the most recent SoW for a great discussion of destabilising alliances with your moves.

Turkey:

Although you've got Austria on the back foot, I don't like your move to Serbia either. Getting Russia to go for a slingshot juggernaut can be difficult, since it can give Turkey the upper hand in the partnership. However, by bouncing Serbia and not Greece, you're spending some of that advantage by giving Austria more influence over the Aegean. With your clear R/T forming, you can be certain that Italy will be convoying to Tunis - so you need all the tempo you can get to put fleets into the Med.

If you'd bounced Austria in Greece, you'd have a better shot of getting in to the med, and also made it much easier for Austria to fight only Russia, giving you the upper hand.

Russia:

Three builds! Good job. Rightly or wrongly, you're likely to be considered a major threat this year - so I hope you are focusing on your diplomacy. You also have the opportunity to relax a bit, so really have a think about the alliance structures on the board, and make sure that the alliances that benefit you stay together. I look forward to having more to say to you.

----

Overall, this is a really interesting game, and I'm already looking forward to the EoGs! On that, make sure you're all using your notes tabs - if you feel like you don't have anything to write there, then you could start with answers to the questions peppered throughout the commentary. Or vehement disagreement with our commentary - I don't mind :)
Sh@dow (3512 D)
09 Mar 15 UTC
Wow. Really fascinating board. And equally fascinating commentary from the professors. I don’t want to repeat much already said in the excellent previous two posts so I will try and focus on the points that I disagree with or that I feel were left out:

I am not a fan of the Italian move. Not a fan at all. I know goldie *loves* it – but I don’t think it makes any sense for Italy. It makes sense if it is Ven-Tyr and Tyr-Boh with a build in Venice. But perhaps not so much sense if you are allied with Austria and are moving there to help Austria against Russia. Italy’s biggest problem in alliance with Austria or against a Jugg is that he is likely to remain stuck on 4 centers till 1903. If Italy is trying something adventurous, it has to be aimed at fixing that deficiency. How does Bohemia help you? Yes, you put pressure on Russia – but is that more beneficial to Austria or to Italy? Quite obviously it is brilliant for Austria – Russia is HIS neighbor who is getting weakened, not yours. Most importantly Venice is left glaringly open for a stab. Even worse – if F Naples moves out into Ionian, Austria can move to Venice in Spring AND take Rome in Autumn. This is less likely given that A never got his 2nd build – but if A had two builds – it would have been terrible. Is it worth taking that sort of risk as Italy? Opening up TWO home centers to Austria? And what are you gaining in return? A small chance of a build in Warsaw? A unit stranded far away on its own behind enemy lines that can be dismantled at any time when alliances shift (as they will at some point)? Just imagine if France builds in Marseilles and comes to Pied or GoL – its curtains for Italy there and then. France and Austria can carve up Italy before Italy can blink. And keep in mind that France has tons of options. He occupies Bur and has a 1 build Germany who probably hates England and is not much of a danger to him – and a 3 build Russia who will build in STP and might put pressure on England – France is sitting pretty, everyone will be courting him now and he has the luxury of choice. There are definitely one or two French players who would proposition Austria to get some quick gains against Italy together while the North continues to be in flux.
Italy has to, has to, has to get builds quickly in 1902, 1903 to ever dream of solo-ing. If you can pull it off, I will be very impressed. Unless Turkey folds, I do not see it happening with this plan. Its too risky. Lets see if I eat my words :)
Turkey, England, France etc can afford to start slow and gather momentum later. Russia and Austria are rapid growth nations who will solo by 1907 sometimes. Italy on the other hand, is a slow growth nation that desperately needs to grow faster to be relevant. The only good thing about this is that perhaps A is on 4 builds, and if you can keep him downsized, maybe you can stab him later after getting a few Turkish centers.

Austria – much has been said by Goldie and ATC that I agree with. Congrats for not rushing back to cover your centers – but I think you could have done better than you did. It was obvious that Turkey and Russia were destroying the Russian fleet. Which means that it was also obvious that Rumania was going to be dislodged (20/20 Hindsight makes it sound so much simpler :P) – ATC makes a good suggestion. Budapest-Galicia followed by a retreat to Bulgaria. Or SH Rum and deny Russia the all-important build. Keep in mind that Greece is vulnerable.

Turkey – super vulnerable as has been pointed out. If AI stick together, you have lost both Aegean and EM this year. Serbia is probably unattainable and the army in Armenia has only defensive purpose in Syria/Smyrna unless you use it to attack Russia. The only positive is that you have complete control of the Black Sea. Your move made *perfect* sense if you thought I was going to stab A – but if you suspected IA alliance – this was not a good move. If Italy had stabbed Austria though, wow – Turkey was in a good position. If I was Turkey, I would aroused the fear of the devil in Austria and tried to ensure that he rushes back to cover his centers from Italy and net me a 2nd build - I wonder if Turkey dedicated enough press to try and achieve that. I also agree with the previous commentators that a bounce in Greece was essential to avoid losing Aegean, EM. Perhps Turkey felt that Budapest would SH Rumania and tried to steal Serbia instead?

Russia – very interesting position. You’ve sacrificed the fleet but gained 2 builds – but as goldie said, you took a huge risk and could very well have ended up with nothing. That said, I like the spirit of adventure in you and Turkey – this was a risky play and kudos to you’ll for trying it out. I hope it succeeds. Unfortunately for you’ll, AI have gone for an equally risky opening move. You have enough armies to defend though and you have diplomatic power to trick/scare IA into stabbing each other. What I like best about your position is the number of options you have. You can build in STP and England can’t complain cos you have no other option. You can build in Warsaw and not worry about Germany etc. I wonder if it would have been worthwhile moving Ukr-Gal and Bul S Sev-Rum. Yes, this would have given Austria a 5th build – but it would mean you in Galicia rather than the other way around. Perhaps not the best situation, but it would have given you some leverage and made Italy more concerned about a stab on Trieste.
Also – if you trust Turkey so much, why didn’t you move Ukr S Sev-Rum?? Having an army in Ukr would have given you far more control over Galicia and allowed you deal with the stray Italian army. On the other hand, I understand the need to keep Sev safe also I guess. But that option was there.

England – you better be damn sure of what you are doing. The only good thing is that Germany can’t build a fleet in Kiel now. But you should have anticipated Russia destroying the fleet and building in STP. Can you take both Germany and Russia on? There is almost zero chance of R-G fighting right now – so that means G will help R now. Do you really have that much faith in France? Did you try claiming Belgium yourself in Autumn? It was an ideal opening for England to lay claim to Belgium and maintain the flexibility of going either way while getting a 2nd build. Where is your next build coming from this year? Is France going to build F Brest?

Germany and France – not much to say. Germany, not sure what you were thinking going for both Holland and Belgium. England had Norway guaranteed and a second fleet free. Were you expecting him to support you into Belgium? Why would an England with nothing to do support you into Belgium? What does England gain from that? Lack of EC opening also meant EF were on good terms. I would have expected you to take that into consideration before trying to get both the Low Countries.

I also want to echo ATC’s call to think deeply about alliances on the board and which alliances on other sides of the board are best for you. As AI, do you want EF to stick or break? What happens when Germany falls? As RT do you want Germany to fall or team up with E/F? What do you gain/lose from that etc – this part is very very important. Make sure you dedicate press to try and mould the board in your favour. No alliances are set in stone – Never give up and always believe that even the strongest alliances can be broken with the right incentives.

Once again, fascinating positions – Im looking forward to seeing how this progresses!
Sh@dow, I just say that about Italy because gameID=67759 had some of the most entertaining early game press from everyone out of every game I had. Its a fun opening, and yeah it probably won't do wonders to help you win, but its fun as hell to troll people and your one army usually ends up pinning down 3-4 others just to guard it.
CSteinhardt (9560 D(B))
10 Mar 15 UTC
[Thanks to abgemacht for inviting me to comment a bit - might do so occasionally, but am not on here very often and tend to stay off the forums]

Diplomacy is a combination of negotiation and tactics, and the choices you make have to balance both factors. In this case, it seems like the players in the East are making diplomatic choices that lock themselves into alliances, so that the game will become tactical in the short-term. We can easily see what the alliances are, and presumably that's going to last until it becomes clear that one alliance or the other is going to win. After all, nobody wants to be in a losing alliance for very long, because as their position degrades, their ability to negotiate a better deal goes away rapidly. So, if there is indeed a war between alliances in the East, it means that at least two players are making a major mistake. Sometimes it's not yet clear which alliance is going to lose, because good tactics involve playing a mixed strategy and short-term luck/good guessing might swing the outcome, while other times, it's clear that one side or the other far stronger. Looking at this particular board, I have a very strong suspicion that I know which alliance is set up to win the war, should both alliances hold. In most cases, fighting a losing war in the opening ends up being a fatal mistake.

The question for everybody (especially the ones making the mistake, but it's a good question for everybody else) is which alliance is making the mistake, and what those players should be doing to change the situation. For that matter, if you're right, how should the other players react? Is it acceptable to them if the war ends this way? How can they take maximum advantage?

We'll leave the answers to each of these as an exercise for the reader -- grade yourself as you see the next few turns play out. I'll throw this at the profs for some good discussion, though: let's say that one of these players does the tactical calculation and concludes that they're on the losing side of a war. What advice do you have for them to try and improve their position?
DeathLlama8 (514 D)
10 Mar 15 UTC
Bump for builds
Lecture 2: Spring 1902

I'm gonna keep this short and sweet, but builds have a lot to tell for this phase. I'll break it down into like/dislike rather than giving grades.

Builds I really like:
Russia

Builds I like:
England, Germany, Italy, Austria, Turkey

Builds I don't like:

Builds I really don't like:

Builds that made me want to rip my dick off:
France

So, I'll start out in the east and move my way on west.

Turkey - Solid build. It was really your only choice, and Smyrna is vastly superior over Con for a fleet build. You are in a really tough position right now both strategically and tactically. BUT, with some clever moves you can halt the I/A right in its tracks. The key is unbalancing the enemy alliance. If possible, give all the gains to one over the other to destabilize it and sow dissent. To come out of 1902 in a rosy position though, you're gonna need some brilliant tactical play on your part in addition to some mistakes made by A/I. But by no means are you a dead man in the foreseeable future.

Austria - Again, solid build. It needed to be an army, and it needed to be in Trieste. It gives you a better shot of taking serbia than not this year. However, you must be wary since your army advantage will be temporary. There are lots of Russian armies to your north. Delaying them for long may not be possible, so this spring is going to be your most crucial phase.

Italy - again, solid choice. Your feel build was necessary for the Lepanto. You're just going to have to make that army in Tunis useful sooner rather than later. Otherwise Austria may decide that unit might be more useful for him.

Russia - ooooh, I like the A St. Petes choice. I really do. A fleet build is far, far too telling. North coast is anti-England. South coast is anti-Germany. But what is an army? Its both, or neither. You could easily be selling Germany a story on stabbing England, while leaving the spoils of the English homeland for German units (how could you claim Edi with just one little old fleet?) or you could be telling England that its fine for him to continue on his German rampage, that you won't interfere. Or maybe you'll help! Or you could say screw it to the west and push that unit south.

I like this build because its versatile. It can be used for any number of plans, but doesn't tell the opposition anything. If I'm England and Germany, I'm looking at that build and I don't know what to think of it. But since its not a fleet, that must be good news, right? If I'm Austria, I'm terrified of the hoard of armies headed south, and might ease the pressure on Turkey. Good job.

Germany - Solid choice with the army. I'm glad you did not succumb to the temptation to build F Ber and throw yourself at England in revenge. You have lots of neighbors with armies in the area, and a potentially hostile France. Best thing to do is batten down the hatches and play it safe. A Mun is just that build.

England - To be honest, I'm not quite sure how to interpret that. An army would be pointless at this point, and F London would be absolutely frowned upon by the French. So the only thing I can definitely say from this build is that its definitively not anti-French.....except it could be.

Consider this - let's say England builds F London and Germany has wooed him over. He moves to the Channel and in the fall supports a convoy to Belgium or tries for Brest.
Alternative scenario - Germany woos England to his side. England says "France, please build only armies for me and in return I'll put F Edi". England cycles North Sea to EC, Germany doesn't tap North Sea (since, allies) and in the fall England is in the *exact same position* as he would be building F London. The only downside is that he doesn't attempt Belgium in the spring, which slows down the alliance by a turn, but at the ENORMOUS upside (for england only) of a 1 fleet France.

Or, if England is allied with France, it could be an anti-Russian or anti-German move. Only time will tell. I liked your builds second best, England. Even if you were pretty much forced into it.

France...
I gave you the best grade in the fall because you had the most options. Well, you just threw all of your options out the door. And all of the best options at that. Congrats for a ground war against Germany, because that's the only thing you're built to handle now. You know how many French armies are needed to breach German lines? Two. Maybe three, if England is being unsuccessful. You have four. You can pretty much scrap any offensive against Italy, because you won't be able to take Tunis. At this point, a regular Italy could devote two units against you to prevent the stab and be completely successful. England? One unit.

You have let England run the show in the West now. Your fate relies on him. Whereas with a fleet build you could back up your leadership with some muscle, now you're just a bamboo sword. What I would have done? F BRE, F MAR. Have a go at Italy and punish him for opening himself up. You could've made good progress before Turkey even came close to breaking through on the other side. But that is pretty much completely out of the cards now (which is the only reason why I'm mentioning it).

You need another build, and quick. Either that or a friendly person to dislodge your armies.
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
11 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
............................................________........................
....................................,.-‘”...................``~.,..................
.............................,.-”...................................“-.,............
.........................,/...............................................”:,........
.....................,?......................................................\,.....
.................../...........................................................,}....
................./......................................................,:`^`..}....
.............../...................................................,:”........./.....
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../.....
............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../........
.........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`........_/...........
..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}...........
...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../............
...,,,___.\`~,......“~.,....................`.....}............../.............
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-”...............
............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\...................
.............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__...........
,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-,....
.....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\........................
...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\.......................
................................`:,,...........................`\..............__..
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``.......
........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\...............
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\..............
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
I'm selling Burn Heals for 250 Poké Dollars if anybody needs one.
CSteinhardt (9560 D(B))
11 Mar 15 UTC
Interestingly enough, I reached the opposite conclusion on the French builds. They look funny for all of the reasons goldfinger mentions -- it takes a position that was potentially quite dynamic and appears to lock it into one mode, a mode that will not be good for France if it cannot find a build somewhere and get a second fleet on the board.

And yet, let's consider what the other options would have looked like...

Suppose France built two fleets, with the intention of poking at Italy and keeping England honest. By pulling Italian forces off the front lines, the end result is that the I/A would be fighting a losing battle, so Turkey gets let out of its box into the Med. France potentially gains something here too, certainly Tunis and likely a bit more. What about the rest of the board?

Well, Russia is growing with little in the way of effective opposition. Should England join in and make it EFRT vs. the rest of the board? No. When EFRT gets reduced, England would be faced with a Russia with multiple fleets and nowhere else to go (even if the fleets are temporarily around Denmark/Sweden, they will continue on) and a France with multiple fleets and a stalemate with Turkey, a border that is likely to be defended short a couple of fleets. So, England doesn't want the EFRT.

What about Germany? Does Germany want the FGRT? Possibly in the short term; F StP(nc) and F Ber look mighty effective, and it's potentially staring down the barrel of an EFR pile-on. But Russia just removed its biggest asset in a long-term stab of Turkey, so how does the FGRT reduce? With Germany caught between France and Russia and having no strategic depth to deal with it.

With a weaker board that isn't thinking to the endgame at this stage, France should IMO still just build the fleets, assume that he can fashion an EFRT or EGRT, and be happy that those both reduce to an FRT. With a strong RT, France is a de facto ally as long as he can find some temporary help.

The place France loses, of course, is when strong players realize that the FRT endgame isn't in their best interest, and so a rampant RT foments a strong EG. Which is the scenario that France has to be worried about the most, of course.

So, the point is that even though a successful RT is probably in the best interest of France, and two fleet builds are helpful for making that happen, the combination doesn't work. France needs an ally willing to work with him, and two fleet builds are likely to stop that from happening. Ultimately, the problem for France is that if an EG forms to deal with Russia, it also attacks France unless it's a triple. And...I'll suffice to point out that if this is a Western triple, y'all are doing it wrong. :)

So, what about F/A? The most standard answer here, and I'd reckon what ~80% of players would have put on the board. I wouldn't have complained with this build -- end up putting fleets in Spa(sc) and MAO, say, and it means that France has a defensive perimeter against England, can quickly put pressure on Italy if desired, and has lots of leverage. Probably my favorite pair of builds in this spot, absent other information.

But wait...let me speculate and ask what happens if we *do* have other information. Perhaps it's a read on England that this build is enough to convince him to take his chances with an EFRT game. Or just perhaps...what would you do as France if you found out that A StP was about to hit the board?

F StP(sc) is most clearly anti-German and was the most likely builds. F StP(nc) is most clearly anti-English and was also possible. But A StP? That has several axes of threat, including Fin/StP and a heavy Scandinavian assault and an all-out blitz on Germany. And most notably, it puts England into a really awkward situation. The normal purpose of the E/G is out of worry about hostile fleets, but there aren't really any. England could, over time, slowly force his way into the MAO, I suppose. But that's going to take 2-3 years, in which time Russia will surely overrun Germany and build northern fleets with England wide open. The French army builds are actually better than fleets defensively, because a perimeter of MAO/Bre/Par/Gas/Mar, say, isn't going anywhere anytime soon, not with Italy otherwise occupied and Germany having a large Russian army to contend with. The French army builds also offer England the possibility that Italy might not collapse anytime soon, so that the RT doesn't have to be part of the endgame. A drawn war between AI/RT in the south while England expands is the best possible scenario, and now it's on the table, right?

In other words, if you knew what the rest of the builds were looking like, this looks to be a clever way of forestalling the EG. It's much less useful offensively, but it also makes France a much less appealing target.

And finally, I might add, if goldfinger is right that Italy is the most important target right now, and you want to pick up a center, let me simply state that the current disposition of the Italian forces is such that I don't think such an attack has been rendered impossible. Even just in terms of distance, F Por and F Mar are equidistant from their nearest Italian centers, after all...

In summary, the point is that France made a poor short-term tactical choice in return for setting up the strategic structure that he wants for the game, and received absolutely the perfect builds in return even from powers far beyond his borders. That's either incredibly fortuitous or the mark of a skilled player, and with skilled Diplomacy players, I tend not to bet on serendipity. So I like these builds a lot.

Having said all of that, I think there might have been even one more option if France was this confident in his read of the situation -- A Par/Waive holds almost all of the benefits of A Bre/A Par, but holds out the possibility of throwing a fleet onto the board in W1902. Three armies is sufficient to deal with Germany, but has the short-term tactical problem that in a F/G war, France obviously wants to be in both Picardy and Burgundy, and these builds let France do so one turn quicker than A Par/Waive or F/A. France seems to have concluded that the extra tempo is worth the loss of flexibility, and if that tempo lets him get a 1902 build, he'll be right. I think I might have preferred the added flexibility from waiving instead. But, in my view, France seems to have judged the situation quite well, so if he considered both waiving and building and decided that the second army was necessary, I suspect he'll turn out to be right.
dyager_nh (619 D)
11 Mar 15 UTC
Plus fleets are for pussies. Real men drive a tank just like Michael Dukakis.
dyager_nh (619 D)
11 Mar 15 UTC
I meant to include a question while posting that :

I was a little surprised to see the professors so in favor of the Russia army build because I would think even an army is anti english in so far as it can only really be used against Norway if it was to be used as anything but a placeholder. I have felt the pain of a stranded Russian army in Norway so I have always defaulted to Fleet NC when building there

So I was curious is Gold or Cstein could expand on more on how it could be used as anti-German.

Or if this is too much info to give here...perhaps the question could be deferred to a later post when it wont effect the game

Page 2 of 9
FirstPreviousNextLast
 

255 replies
Page 1272 of 1419
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top