Unless Germany decides to bounce...

(Germany)
That would be a discussion for the fall phase, depending on what orders actually get submitted this time around.

(England) @Russia, I do agree that it would be best for our two countries to focus on any conflicts that arise closer to us first, but that is, of course up to my driver. As to supporting you into Sweden (which would only happen if Germany bounces in Fall 01) what might you be offering in return?

Could someone in this game shoot an email to [email protected] explaining what it is so all the mods are up to date? Thanks.

-WebDip Admin

(Russia)
@England: Well i think its best that we wait for this phase to finish and see what the drivers do, and how each country shifts its units. Perhaps even wait for next spring. Based on who you are aiming for and any hostilities against Russia or England, we can then negotiate.

@jmo Okay, I'll send an email. I'm going to bed now though so I'll do it somewhere tomorrow.

(Austria)

@germany, italy, turkey. i would be happy to ally with you so i can go after russia.

(Austria)
@france: if austria does not like the idea of an alliance with three of their neighbors (i personally wouldn't but they might) and if turkey accepts an alliance, and does not juggernaut, an alliance against germany or italy would probably be a good idea.

@germany, england, italy: if russia and turkey seem to have a juggernaut we will probably need at least 2 (preferably germany will be in the alliance) to help ally against them, and the other to remain neutral) if they do not we will also need you to enter the alliance against them france)

@turkey: i agree, juggernauts are not usually as beneficial for turkey as russia, and an alliance against them would probably be a good choice.

@russia: as you have not responded i will assume that you do not want an alliance. i would just like to point out though that turkey is almost always the stabber in a juggernaut, as they feel that they cannot expand, and that if you ally with them it will be extremely difficult for you to defeat them later, or prevent a stab. i think it would probably be a good idea for us to at least consider an alliance)

@england: if there is a russian juggernaut, or based off of what happens with germany, an alliance could be very beneficial. respond if you are interested, plans can change depending on what austria chooses to do.

(France) @French driver.

Looks like the Spring '01 negotiations are winding down somewhat. So, although I'm sure you got it already, I figure it wouldn't hurt if I summarize some of the stuff relevant for France.

First off, I agreed with England to DMZ the English Channel. I strongly suggest to keep to that arrangement, which basically means our fleet should move to MAO. Other than that you're free to move as you see fit.

It's noteworthy that Italy has said that warring with us early on wouldn't serve their interest as it wouldn't gain them much and distract them from bigger concerns in the East. Nonetheless they have yet to respond to my proposal to DMZ Piedmont so although I certainly don't recommend moving to Piedmont, unless Italy gets back to me on this, you wouldn't be breaking any agreements if you decide to go there.

If you want to play defensively then Mar S Par-Bur might be a good move as it keeps open your options to defend against any would be invader and still allows you to pick up the Iberian centers in the Fall. However, even though IMO you have every right to occupy Burgundy, it appears as though the German negotiator would appreciate it if you leave it open. In that case you could move Paris to the less strategic province Picardy or self-bounce in Burgundy. I wouldn't recommend the latter though as it would mean forgoing any leverage we might have towards Belgium in the Fall. Of course other options are possible as well, such as Par-Gas, Mar-Bur. Like I said, other than staying clear from the Channel, as far as I'm concerned you're free to move as you see fit.

(Russia)
@Italy, It seems that Austria is trying to get an alliance with the west and be able to focus solely on Russia and maybe Turkey. As France said earlier, a French-Italian conflict is always the best move for both countries. That ultimately leaves for you to go for either Turkey or Austria, and considering that Austria might be attacked early on, weakening him and his defenses, I think you'll make the right choice ;)

*is always a bad move LOL

(France) I don't want to tell the Italians how to roll (as long as they roll Eastward) but with all this talk of Juggernaut, attacking Austria right off the bat might not be the best move. I can see how Russia would like to see that happen though.

(austria)
@italy: if you attack austria early on, it will weaken him, and you'll be facing a juggernaut soon. (which there is a very high possibility that there will be one) if you do that you might gain a few scs early on, but you will soon probably lose those (along with all of your others) as there will be a juggernaut, and a turkey that is focused almost entirely on you. I hope you make the right choice. ;)

@russia: of course i am getting an alliance in the west. there is a juggernaut about to consume austria unless help from the west comes. i am also trying to get an alliance with either you or turkey though (not both as i really do not like the idea of a blocked off turkey). it is just a strategic decision to try to avoid going east or north unless turkey is hightly committed to an attack against russia (which it seems like they are not.

Well, that's assuming there IS a juggernaut ;P And obviously I would like that :)
But lets be realistic, no conflict with France and an alliance with Austria early in the game is terrible for Italy. And aiming for turkey is quite a wasted effort and pretty stupid.

(Germany)

Given the preponderance of Lepanto's on this site, to say that Italy aiming for Turkey is "wasted effort and pretty stupid" is clearly not borne out.

France is correct that I would prefer Burgundy to stand open, as a bounce there is just a waste of two units that could be doing far more productive things - in both cases challenging for Belgium is more relevant.

(France)

Just to be clear... A move by France to Burgundy would be nothing more than a defensive move. It wouldn't be an act of aggression against Germany. However, given that we have not agreed on a bounce, then we will most definitely see a move to Burgundy by Germany as an act of war against France.

(Germany)

France, you do not get to define how we will react to you moving on Burgundy. I have made it clear that I do not wish to see a German move there, so for you to posture about needing it for defence is ridiculous.

(France) @Germany

I'm not trying to define how you will react. I'm just saying that if you assume that France wants to attack Germany just because a French unit moves to Burgundy then I would consider that a gross overreaction.

As I have said before, Burgundy borders two of our home centers. It would be rather disastrous for France if a German unit would move to Burgundy and the only way for my driver to make sure it doesn't is to move their themselves as a pro-active defense. The reverse is not true, a French unit in Burgundy is not at all that much of a threat to Germany. It would for instance be quite easy to cover Munich in the Fall. Thus there is simply no defensive reason for Germany to move to Burgundy. So yeah, it's not a symmetrical issue, not even nearly so. That's all I'm saying.

In addition Burgundy can cover Marseilles in case the Italians venture into Piedmont, i.e. an issue that doesn't even concern Germany much as far as I'm concerned.

Let's not get carried away over this too much though at this time. Let's see what the drivers do first. For all we know the French driver will indeed do you the favor of leaving Burgundy open. In which case by my reckoning you will owe us one. I mean, it's not like I recommended that my driver move to Burgundy. I merely mentioned it as one of a number of options that I think they should feel free to pursue if they want to. I also mentioned several options where they keep Burgundy open.

INSTEAD OF YELLING IT AT US YOU COULD HAVE ASKED NICELY AND I WOULDN'T BE POSTING HERE.

Go away, Draug.

See, I'm not the only one ignores orders screamed at me. I had enough yelling of orders in the Marines.

@Draug. I suppose some people with a moronic sense of humor think that was funny. Can we cut it out now though? We're trying to play a game here and you're not a part of it. Plus, it was not just me but also our esteemed mod abgemacht that asked that everyone respect the rules of this thread. I would hate to see you get banned over this.

But abgemacht didn't yell at me rudely about it. Ask nice and I won't even reply. I'll just go away.

Draug

If you post in this thread again for any reason you will be Silenced.

At the risk of being silenced, I feel I must do this...

Oscar - I'm sorry. I was having a little fun and got carried away, but that is no excuse. Please forgive me. I do respect you and hope the game proceeds well from this point forward.

Any copycats at there. Don't. Just don't. Let's let them play their game.

Peace out.

Draugnar

Alright, thanks for that Draug.

@Draug

To answer your question: Your Silence will be for 1 Day starting now.

@Everyone

Please respect the rules of this thread. I do not ask much from ya'll, but there is no reason to harass players using the Forum to play a game. That's what it should be here for.

(France) Spring '01 processes in an hour. I'm looking forward to see the first moves. </shameless bump>

(France) So it turns out that while the French driver heeded the concerns of the German backseat driver in regards to Burgundy, the German driver ignored the French concerns about jumping to 6 centers in the first year. Frankly, at this point I feel that if Germany wishes to cooperate with us, an option that is certainly still open, then they should clearly show some cooperative behavior with their next moves and with the builds.

In the mean time I think it's probably in our best interest to strengthen our relation with England. It's nice to see that the agreement about the Channel was respected by both drivers. With Germany leaving Denmark open for a possible bounce and Russia opening Southward so Norway can be taken without support I would say that there are plenty of opportunities for England and France to continue to cooperate. I wouldn't mind hearing what the English backseat driver has to say about that.

It also seems that both the Italian and the French drivers agreed with the Spring '01 discussion about it not being a particular good idea to engage in Italian-French aggression. I think it would be wise to continue that and would hope that the Italian backseat driver agrees with that. Particularly, although I don't want to force the issue, I would prefer that Italy take Tunis via convoy.

As for the French Fall moves...

Since my driver will surely want to pick up the Iberian centers then Spa H and MAO-Por seem to be a given. The only realistic alternative Spa-Por, MAO Spa/sc would likely antagonize Italy which is something I wouldn't recommend at this point given the aggressive German opening.

So, that just leaves Picardy which could either hold, involve itself in some action in Belgium or cover Burgundy. I want my driver to have the option to cover Burgundy but not obligate him to do so. Therefore I probably won't be giving any recommendations or making any deals regarding Picardy. Nonetheless, if anyone has a proposal about Picardy then I will certainly take it under advisement.