yes. more please

As a coda to that:

At around 7 minutes, a woman makes a halfway reference to John Stuart Mill, mentioning that you can wail your arms around until you hit someone, which seems a rather obvious take off from his famous saying "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's face begins."

A good saying, for sure (one of my favorites of his, in fact, I'd argue that IS one of the bedrock principles in balancing authority and liberty) but one that Mill DID NOT intend towards offensive language/sayings/etc...

Mill protects seemingly-offensive speech, on the dual grounds that 1. What one person sees as offensive is freedom of speech to another and 2. Logic seems to dictate that democracy is stronger for allowing the minority, offensive-or-not voice, as if said voice is right and we stifle it we lose a great deal whereas if it's wrong and we let it speak we gain the reaffirmation of our own values and may safely guard against such speech.

Hence the reason why, despite their culling their ranks from the cesspool of humanity, the KKK, WBC, and other such groups' speech is protected (until, of course, they start burning crosses in people's yards and the like.)

In short, restricting anything that smacks of offensiveness in anyway to anyone is, well, rather restrictive and the opposite of the sort of liberty and freedom that secularists and feminists both generally strive for...

Whereas THIS fringe group seems intent on libeling even the slightest displays that might offend someone somewhere for some reason.



It's NOT a good spin off of either movement.

"It's got less than 100,000 views. Is it worth wasting our time on every nut who posts a video?"

Well, it has 77,000+ in just a few days, abgemacht.

It's only been up since Dec. 29th, so for a recent video, that IS a relatively-quick grower (or at least for a non-music/pop-culture related video it is.)

And I just thought I'd see what everyone had to say...especially considering we have among our secularist ranks some from rather different backgrounds.



In the spirit of freedom of expression being championed here, you ARE free to skip over my posts after all, abgemacht...I'll not label you an Anti-Semite or a traitor to all things good and free in the world if you do... ;)

@obi

You're better than this. This is video is clearly propaganda concerned only with making their point, not with providing any context for anything said, nor for allowing anyone (probably) misquoted to defend themselves.

Seriously, obi, get off the soap box. You're better than this.

You neither represent real atheism nor real feminism. Next.

Oh, please, Putin, do tell us in no uncertain terms the one and only "correct" way to do both things.

Honestly, OP made me think of YOU before anything else. I'd say he's describing your general forum behavior quite accurately.

"Seriously, obi, get off the soap box. You're better than this."

No he's not.

I watched a part of the video and I have even less of a clue what this thread is about than before I watched. What the hell is obiwan getting worked up about in human terms?

The atheist and feminist communities aren't really friends, at least on the internet. There have been a lot of very prolific, multi-platform flame wars between both members groups and influential thought leaders of those groups. I haven't watched the video, but I'm sure it's unsurprising given the context of how these two ideological camps get along.

There's camps?

redhouse, are you surprised that there are (many) separate places on the internet devoted to discussing both atheism and feminism? That influential atheists and feminists are acquainted with each other and often collaborate (that is, influential atheists are acquainted with other influential atheists, and same for feminists)? I'm not sure what your question is.

Neither am I, but I'm gonna call it a day anytime now. Am I surprised about the Internet being a place where atheism and feminism are discussed separately and/or together? Not really. I'm surprised about how that discussion ended up here seemingly without the need for a proper introduction

This thread is about a YouTube video titled "Why feminism is poisoning atheists". I'm just remarking that there's a lot of bad blood between those two groups of people, and it's very unsurprising that such a video exists.

So is there anything substantial about this debate?

Why it's this an all male discussion? Any reason you don't want the female forum members joining in the discussion?

Celticfox: The thing is, that women's opinions just aren't that valuable and really take up space.

Still a solotard I see.

I may be a solotard - but at least I can pee standing up. LOL. And at least I'm not a feminized boy, heh. And at least I don't go for ad-hominem attacks. Rid me of your presence, ulytau. I have no interest in what a femi-boy has to say.

can someone tell me what this thread is actually about. i don't see a lot of feminism here.

what do you mean all male?

for reference, no way in hell i will follow a link to a remotely political youtube link. haven't done that in years and i'm not planning on starting again anytime soon. so i don't know what this video, which is probably 98% hot air, actually says.

Oh hey Al Swearengen! You have no interest in femi-boys eh? Think I can change your mind? Ask me about how I go to feminist meetings and argue with my male friends and leave the toilet seat down after I use it and wouldn't want a possible future wife to change her last name and care a lot about successfully communicating emotionally and am vegetarian and think we live in a rape culture and so on. Maybe this femi-boy can spur you into vitriolic self-character assassination!

/baited

This thread is making me roll my eyes harder than I've ever rolled them before.

Thucy... I think I'm in like with you.

Al Swear... seems like a disgusting human being, but maybe I'm overreacting because I'm a femi-boy.

My Dear Socrates,

I am sorry if you have that impression of me. If there is anything reasonable I might do to persuade you to the contrary, please don't hesitate to mention it. While my reputation is hardly spotless, allowing people to further blemish it will do nothing to improve my standing here.

Sarcasm? Or am I mistaken and that's a genuine post? Even though I assume it's the former, I will try to engage in a conversation - giving you the benefit of the doubt. I just think your sexist post was offensive and innappropriate, and the views you seemed to have, are abhorrent views in my mind, and if you hold them then....

Well, you don't name yourself after a pimp without such attitude.

Al is pretty well know for his view that womans opinions mean much. I just choose to ignore such ignorance.

I know plenty of girls who could kick Al's ass. He's an ignorant fucktard* who should go back to jerking off over his knife collection and leave the rest of us alone.



*Thank you Draugnar for teaching me this word.

M. Socrates,

My thanks to you, my good man. Although I cannot trust every player on the site to acquaint themselves with me personally, please rest assured that it is against my policies to employ sarcasm. Sarcasm, after all, is the preferred tone of petulant shonen for the simple reason that they know of no superior method of expressing their grievances. You may safely trust that I shall attempt always to speak genuinely to you.

That being said, I should like to acknowledge that my post was indeed sexist, but was not offensive and most certainly not inappropriate. Sexism is the inevitable conclusion of any educated person who must realize the vast inequalities between the two sexes. Sexism is therefore non-offensive and is usually appropriate.

If you find such views to be abhorrent, you have only Providence to thank for this. We seem to have been created thus and so any discomfort or squeamishness on this point is perhaps understandable, but certainly counterproductive. Nature, in all it's imperfections, is best studied, understood and tolerated.