Lets get your self hating head on straight Mr. Boston. Who declared war on who?

Internet forums are often full of strange thoughts... this has got to rank among the strangest...

Sieg heil!

What the hell is this?

A date--12/7/1941--and a number--6,000,000.

That's all I'm saying...

Japan only declared war on the United States after the U.S. clandestinely sent aid to the Chinese, initiated sanctions and an oil embargo on Japan, and made diplomatically impossible demands upon the Japanese government. Roosevelt, knowledgable of the Tripartite Pact, intentionally antagonized the Japanese to enter the U.S. into the war against Germany. The Roosevelt administration helped facilitate the Pearl Harbor attack and did little to stop it, and really the Pearl Harbor attack was not so much an attack as a preemptive strike to prevent the U.S. from interfering with Japanese interest in SE Asia. And, there would have been no Pacific Fleet for the Japanese to bomb had the American fleet stayed stationed in the West Coast, as it was before 1941.

Its the culmination of jpgs self hate which has been slowly building up for weeks

Would you rather Germany have created the nuke and defeated Russia? Then we could see a unified Europe...

You do realize Hitler declared war on us, right?...

And Obiwan's post says it all.

"Japan only declared war on the United States after the U.S. clandestinely sent aid to the Chineseinitiated sanctions and an oil embargo on Japan, and made diplomatically impossible demands upon the Japanese government."

Impossible Demands? To stop a war of aggression on the Chinese governments is impossible demands? Wow

"Roosevelt, knowledgable of the Tripartite Pact, intentionally antagonized the Japanese to enter the U.S. into the war against Germany."

Would make sense if the US hadn't supported China against Japan for half a decade before the Tripartite pact and the war in Europe

"The Roosevelt administration helped facilitate the Pearl Harbor attack and did little to stop it, and really the Pearl Harbor attack was not so much an attack as a preemptive strike to prevent the U.S. from interfering with Japanese interest in SE Asia."

Yes the US purposefully let its Pacific battlefleet be blown up in harbor, always love you conspiracy nuts.

"And, there would have been no Pacific Fleet for the Japanese to bomb had the American fleet stayed stationed in the West Coast, as it was before 1941. "

So the US isnt allowed to moor its fleets in its own territories, but Japan is allowed to launch a war of aggression on China.

What the fuck is wrong with you jpg

@santa whom do I hate? Please do tell me.

@Atom
Stalin created the nuke...and the world is still here.

@Nelhybel
Wow, HItler declared war on us! He totally would have been able to cross the Atlantic and launch an invasion of the Eastern Seaboard. And the Roosevelt administration knew that HItler would declare war on the U.S. if the U.S declared war on Japan.

So in Jpgs estimation

Invading East Asia with the intent to conquer is a.o.k but withholding oil from a nation aggressively attacking a long term foreign policy interest is not...

"@santa whom do I hate? Please do tell me. "

The United States of America, because mainly you were born an american. This ridiculous thread proves it.

"He totally would have been able to cross the Atlantic and launch an invasion of the Eastern Seaboard."
I'm always amused by people who like to talk about this as though it could have never happened. Let us remember, *we* did it to *them*: D-Day ring a bell to you? We crossed the Atlantic and invaded (or rather, liberated) Nazi-occupied Europe.

If we'd not ever entered the war, and Germany and Japan did ultimately win (which was very conceivable), we would have been an unbelievably vulnerable target for either of the fascist empires.

"And the Roosevelt administration knew that HItler would declare war on the U.S. if the U.S declared war on Japan. "

No actually he didnt at all, Hitler's declaration of war came as a complete surprise. It saved FDR some political maneuvering though thank god.

Are you aware of the incidents which lead to the Cold War? I was completely different, but that's irrelevant. Without our help in Europe, Germany would have captured England not much longer and then would have been able to finish conquests in Russia.

My advice to you, take a basic college course on European history. Maybe you'll understand what's wrong with you then.

JPG answer 1 question

Why is it alright for Japan to launch a war of unmitigated aggression, but it is evil for the US to moor ships in American Territory and withhold oil from Japan?

So Santa, I guess you consider it ok for the government to unilaterally order that private oil companies cannot provide a certain government oil in a transaction. The U.S. not giving oil to Japan is the equivalent today of Saudi Arabia refusing the U.S. any more oil supplies. So, Japan decided to invade the Dutch West Indies and other SE Asian countries to obtain necessary oil, metal, and rubber supplies. And Santa I guess you consider interventionism a very important part of U.S. foreign policy, so were you in support of invading Iraq? You know, Iraq were massacring their own people, and the Japanese were involved in a war with the Chinese, so I guess the Iraqi actions are actually worse. And yes, ordering a country out of another country is no business of the United States, and it certainly sounds like a very draconian negotiating process.

So go tell a Holocaust survivor that you think we should have stood idle while Hitler massacred Jews, Slavs, Poles, homosexuals, and countless other groups... you'll probably get a punch in the face... just a guess...

Russia was able to drive back Germany before large amounts of U.S. supplies even began to arrive. It is true that these supplies were very helpful, but "finish conquests in Russia...?" that's a very dubious proposition. German troops were on their last legs by December 1941, and that was really their only good chance to rip out the heart of the Russians. It was attrition in Stalingrad afterwards. And why were we helping the Russians??? Stalin was worse than Hitler, and it's been established he killed more people. Can someone tell me that? Why help the Russians? And Britain would not have fallen, the Battle of Britain ensured that invasion of Britain was not possible, particularly with Hitler's committal of forces to the Eastern front.

US intervention was irrelevant. The Soviets would have liberated Europe without US aid. Japan couldn't have gotten very far in Siberia with the little resources they had that were already overstretched. They couldn't even handle the Chinese so they wouldn't be able to take the Russians.

Hey Nelhybel, tell that to the Shias who got massacred when they revolted against Saddam but the U.S. decided not to knock off Saddam in 1991 because then Iran would get too powerful. People get massacred all over the world when the U.S. could act. America can't be expected to save everyone all over the world.

"So Santa, I guess you consider it ok for the government to unilaterally order that private oil companies cannot provide a certain government oil in a transaction."

I think it is very ok for a country to order private oil companies to embargo a country that is massacring Chinese by the millions over a blown up rail line whos charges were set by Japanese soldiers.

"And Santa I guess you consider interventionism a very important part of U.S. foreign policy, so were you in support of invading Iraq?"

Iraq didn't attack the United States, and Iraq didn't pose a threat to conquer the world.

"You know, Iraq were massacring their own people, and the Japanese were involved in a war with the Chinese, so I guess the Iraqi actions are actually worse."

I guess you consider Japanese massacring Chinese to be equivelent to Iraqis "Massacring their own people" because they all have slanty eyes?

"And yes, ordering a country out of another country is no business of the United States, and it certainly sounds like a very draconian negotiating process. "

I assume you believe it was the US right to invade Iraq just as it was Japan's right to invade china right?

"Yes the US purposefully let its Pacific battlefleet be blown up in harbor, always love you conspiracy nuts."

Well, the sinking of the Panay and three Standard Oil tankers (by Japan) and the Reuben James (by Germany) proved insufficient to whip up the American people into a war frenzy. Something drastic had to be done!

"I'm always amused by people who like to talk about this as though it could have never happened. Let us remember, *we* did it to *them*: D-Day ring a bell to you? We crossed the Atlantic and invaded (or rather, liberated) Nazi-occupied Europe."

Uh... the Allied forces crossed the English Channel, not the Atlantic, in the invasion of Normandy. Landing, supporting, and supplying an invasion force through 3,000 miles of hostile water (with no nearby friendly bases) to land on hostile beaches without air superiority is a whole different ball of wax.

Santa, I guarantee you that if Saudi Arabia cut off all oil supplies to the U.S. right now, we would invade somewhere, likely Saudi Arabia but maybe somewhere else. At the very least we would initiate a coup somewhere.

Excellent! And the Saudis would have the right to fight back would they not?

Hey santa, you just said Iraq was no threat to the world...but Japan was? Explain that to me please.

"
Well, the sinking of the Panay and three Standard Oil tankers (by Japan) and the Reuben James (by Germany) proved insufficient to whip up the American people into a war frenzy. Something drastic had to be done!"

Excellent! So make sure all your pacific battleships, still considered esential to naval warfare, were in port to be blown up without a fight. I love it Wag the dog people wag the dog...

"Hey santa, you just said Iraq was no threat to the world...but Japan was? Explain that to me please. "

There was a little something called the tripartite pact I believe you just mentioned...