+10,000

I don't see any facts, just sarcasm and implication. For example, I wanted to actually hear the footage of the guy they said, "This man never existed and everything he said is a lie" about, I feel that would actually be interesting. But instead it's a bunch of self-congratulatory innuendo. They don't assign dates to any of the tapes that they claim make him steadily younger, and a full minute of the five minutes is intro and outro wasted space. I don't believe every single thing I've been told about it, I mean, that passport is too convenient to actually happen. But at least the government's side of the story made the pretense of presenting actual information.

its pretty cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdC9jQ-VO8A&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

this one is just as good

I was walking down to the river (maumee) and met a dragon named furlsstad. Furlsstad was very nice for a dragon, he invited me to his house over on detroit, where he stays with his friend rick. We drank a few beers and got awful tipsy. so trashed in fact he set the house on fire and we had to split! He flew us down to texas and he slept it off. In the morning I rolled up a joint for him thinking it would cool him off, but he tried to light it himself and lit yet another fire!!!! after that we split again, I said 'would you please take me home' and he did. then he flew away.
if you dont belive me I have all sorts of information to prove it.
http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2011/09/06/Fire-damages-Toledo-home-2.html
http://www.examiner.com/county-buzz-in-houston/breaking-news-fire-at-fm-1486-update-montgomery-texas-9-6-2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maumee_River

lol...I'd say that's a fair parallel.

This video, like all of the arguments of the 9/11 denialists, is nothing but self-congratulatory dribble. Look no further than the claim that Navy SEALS involved in the killing of bin Laden died in that helicopter attack. In fact, it was other members of SEAL Team 6, none of whom were involved in the bin Laden raid. But hey, why let a few simple and widely available facts get in the way of a good story that makes you look smarter than the rest of society?

The only conspiracy on 9/11 was the one al Qaeda made.

I hope you find furlsstad again, sicarius. That sounds so sad. ;_;

Pure shit Invictus. CNN and the Economist say otherwise.

@sicarius: the difference is we would have seen the dragon on Radar. Also I couldn't find anything on dragons in the maumee River article.

The fact is 3 important events happened in 9/11:
1) Boston Air Traffic Control didn't report that the flight took a detour on their route, despite being trained to do so.
2) When interceptors took off from the pentagon they went the wrong way.
3) WTC 7

*they were ordered by the pentagon to fly out to see, rather then to Washington.

No, you are the one talking shit, Fasces349. Not that we should expect anything else from a punk Canadian fascist who delights in the deaths of innocent people on 9/11.

The SEALS who died were not the same individuals who killed bin Laden, they were members of the same special unit, SEAL Team 6. Perhaps this is enough to satisfy you.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-10/us/pentagon.seals.death.toll_1_navy-seals-helicopter-afghan-troops?_s=PM:US
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-11/world/afghanistan.chopper.us.killed_1_navy-seals-helicopter-crash-nato-airstrike?_s=PM:WORLD
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14430735
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8687193/Taliban-shot-that-brought-down-American-Chinook-killing-30-US-commandos-was-lucky-officials-believe.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/world/asia/07afghanistan.html?_r=3&hp
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_AFGHANISTAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-06-06-27-19

17 SEALS died in the helicopter attack, around two dozen were involved in killing bin Laden, and there were 120 in SEAL Team 6. That would leave about 96 SEALS who had nothing to do with the raid in Pakistan. Your argument expects us to believe not only that the United States would kill some of the most skilled special forces it has in a humiliating and public way to cover up... well, something about bin Laden in Pakistan, but also that they wouldn't even bother killing all of them!

This line of thinking illustrates what's wrong in all conspiracy theories. The people get an idea in their heads about what they think is true, then interpret any and all evidence in a biased way to support their conclusion, even when they are shown to be completely wrong. The emotional investment of conspiracy theorists in their craft is too much for them to ever consider changing their minds.

Now, I repeat
We live in a country engaged in numerous wars (jesus how many now four? five?) whose economy is crumbling (at least for the bottom 90%), whose cohesion is all but eroded, where corporations and the government are indistinguishable (I think theres a word for that, I wonder what it is) where the mass media is merely another branch of government.
And faced with this what is our collective response?

Endless bickering over whether or not the USA caused 9-11 to launch endless war and a police-nanny state., or merely took advantage of it to launch endless war and a police-nanny state.

The wars that have defined the last decade, better represent the actions of an empire not a republic, is that really so hard to see?

I agree with you sicarius, but I don't recall you saying that earlier

And I stand corrected ivictus. but I am still not fascist, just an anti-democratic neo-liberal.

Sicarius there is some truth in that. If you had asked a Roman in 146 BC if there was a Roman Empire the answer would have been no I(or even of a state that was technically separate but which was allied with Rome, but which today we would consider part of the Empire).

Ask yourself this: ten years into the post-9/11 era, haven't we had enough of ourselves? If we have any respect for history or humanity or decency left, isn't it time to rip the Band-Aid off the wound, to remove 9/11 from our collective consciousness? No more invocations of those attacks to explain otherwise inexplicable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and our oh-so-global war on terror. No more invocations of 9/11 to keep the Pentagon and the national security state flooded with money. No more invocations of 9/11 to justify every encroachment on liberty, every new step in the surveillance of Americans, every advance in pat-downs and wand-downs and strip downs that keeps fear high and the homeland security state afloat.

The attacks of September 11, 2001 were in every sense abusive, horrific acts. And the saddest thing is that the victims of those suicidal monstrosities have been misused here ever since under the guise of pious remembrance. This country has become dependent on the dead of 9/11 - who have no way of defending themselves against how they have been used - as an all-purpose explanation for our own goodness and the horrors we've visited on others, for the many towers-worth of dead in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere whose blood is on our hands.

Why do you think America wages these wars Sicarius?
Why did Rome conquer an Empire? What was the motivation?

Well just look at Iraq. The sole reason for going in was to get rid of WMDs that Iraq had.

WMDs that America surpervised the disbandment of in 1991...

I have been reading George Friedman... so my opinions are mostly a poor facsimile of his views. But Friedman would say that America's action were to ensure that no serious regional power was able to develop in the Middle East. And that this is in-line with a general strategy of making sure that serious regional powers don't get too strong any where (including Europe), as a way of ensuring that no power threatens America's hegemony. And that as a long term strategy this is a cost effective way of maintaining America's defense, ultimately of it's own sovereignty.

If corporate media reports it, it MUST be true.....

Sarcasm and innuendo. When anyone has more than that, I'm ready to listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdC9jQ-VO8A&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Already posted it...

Sacred - you have ten years worth of questions and contradictory facts at your disposal...its called Google. Everything in that video is easily verifiable. I think we are long past the hold-your-hand-and-lead-you-to-water stage. It's time to start using common sense! Because if you refuse to look into it, that says more about you than the video I've presented.

Remove all conspiracy theories and you still have an official story that stinks to high hell. It cannot be believed by anyone with common sense or not cowardly enough to use "sarcasm and innuendo" to be used as excuses for dismissing the wealth of contradictory evidence.

The 9-11 official story is your woobie.

"When anyone has more than that, I'm ready to listen. "

And don't lie. You've had ten years to listen. If it hasn't gotten through, it never will. Don't pretend to be some sort of impartial judge.

here...the whole thing with a transcript and cites...

http://www.corbettreport.com/911-a-conspiracy-theory/

not that this is going to change your mind or anything. It's difficult to drop the woobie.

@ spyman: "a general strategy of making sure that serious regional powers don't get too strong any where (including Europe), as a way of ensuring that no power threatens America's hegemony. And that as a long term strategy this is a cost effective way of maintaining America's defense, ultimately of it's own sovereignty."

America's hegemony is already nearing its end. China will overtake it as a superpower in the next couple of decades. So even if you accept the above view, all the death and injustice in the middle east wouldn't have been worth it, would it?

Yes, adding sarcasm, innuendo, and disparaging remarks is a sure way to anyone's heart and mind.

I've already admitted in the thread that parts of it are unbelievable. And this is how you treat a person that says "I'm interested in seeing more." That says all I need to hear. If you can't treat a person who's willing to listen to you as if they are an adult, how can you possibly expect anyone to treat you seriously?

But I will look at the link.

Barry Jennings' video is said to be clear proof that WTC 7 explosions happened before the twin towers came down.

But at 2:58 of it, he clearly says he had no way of knowing the tower was coming down at the time that he was escaping WTC 7.

i have only one thing to add.

it not the end of the world either way. People love to hang on to 'crazy' stories, like believing in zombie vampire jesus, or the official story of what happened, or the conspiracy theory.

Either way, going to war means killing people. Killing people is wrong.

The 'facts' of 9/11 will not change the current economic situation. Why are people wasting time/energy engaging in a conversation which will change nothing?

also, Ignorance is Bliss, not Strength as this video seems to think.