No fair. You can play FP like GB, but you can't play GB like FP. That's cheating!

You are annoying as fuck in press games. Maybe that would explain it.

Interested

2WL is annoying as fuck in FP games according to Mapu. I'm just tiresome on the forums according to Mapu. Well aren't we special, 2WL? :-)

I'm a delight in full press... :D

Ps...regarding your original gripe...GB isn't diplomacy. Diplomacy uses, you know...Diplomacy...(And no, I don't buy the argument that the secret "signals" in GB make for diplomacy. It's just a poor shadow of *real* diplomacy... :P ) (Now, for all you gunboaters...let's see you counter my argument without using words!

No, you are fun on the forums most of the time, Draug. It's just when you get in your bitchy mode periodically that grows tiresome.

That bitchy mode IS his period, Mapu...

"You are annoying as fuck in press games."

Ladies and gentlemen, the webdip mods.

You're annoying as fuck in gunboat too ;)

OK, KrelliBaby, I +1'd that even if it was a stab at me. :-)

You know who is the most fun in full press? Our Greek friend, hellalt. He is sooo much fun to stab and watch him go off like a lit roman candle in a fireworks warehouse.

This is weird to me - I guess I assumed that if you are a solid tactician, can read the map well, etc, then those skills would be enough to carry you through any kind of game.

How do you account for this? The ability for other players to make secret deals that then put the lie to what you've been reading on the map? An inability to read between the lines of your rivals' messages? Too susceptible to sweet-talk or threats? Too trusting? Too paranoid? Abrasive personality? There could be a million different reasons, I suppose...

I'm genuinely curious, because I'm the opposite - a decent full-presser who's played a few gunboats recently to work on my map-reading and positional play. The press problem seems more amorphous. Harder to pin down what exactly your trouble is, so you can specifically work on it.

Hazel, don't you ever have a FP game where, a few turns in, you go "god damnit, looks like ___ is a gunboater."

A game where the player puts far less effort into their press and, despite making good moves and maybe even making good suggestions, leaves you very little to work with? I think a lot if it may be a time commitment thing.

Yonni, I'm not sure what you mean. Making good moves while leaving rivals little to work with sounds like successful play to me.

@krellin



.

I'm with you Hazel -- I don't understand how some players are so consistently successful in GB, or why I'm so consistently unsuccessful! It's almost like when I can't write press, I lose any tactical and strategic skill I have too.

@Yonni - I doubt that is 2wl's problem. I can say for certain that I write more in my FP games than any "full press player." With that being said, I think a ton of gunboat gives you a different perspective on overall strategy and tactics. In my experience, I can be pulling my hair out sometimes because some player who has apparently never played gunboat can't wrap their head around a stalemate line, or, can't see the danger in a Russia wrapped around the stalemate lines. I think GB players have a higher expectation of tactics from their opponents, and this leads to problems in developping relationships due to this disparity.

That being said, I like your idea and would be willing to play a non-anon FP 48 hr game with you.

Talking allows one to deceive his enemy into thinking he is an ally and convince his ally to things they normally wouldn't do. Say France vilates the DMZ with Italy. A talking Italy may convince France to back off or a talking France may convince Italy he is coming to help. also, when you run into trouble, in GB you are fucked. In FP, you can call out to your allies "Yo! I'me getting eaten alive down here and they *will* break thru the line" and your allies, who might not hacve mnoticed it being focues on their fronts, see your trouble and come help.

Imagine, if you will, no communication in WWII. The Americans would have declared war againsty Japan when attacked but may not have joined the fight against Germany. Same idea.

Lando, you also do very well at FP. Playing against you, you don't get the immediate feeling that you're a gunboater. Your press may be more abrasive than most but it's definitely there and effective. I think your GR reflects that you're not just a gunboater.

Great, thanks Lando. Anyone else interested? Draug? krellin? Yonni? Czech?

I could get better at press if I had the time to devote to it. The right arguments to make to get things turning your way aren't intuitive to me. I love just staring at a gunboat map with all information in front of me and maneuvering based strictly off tactics and anticipating the same pure tactical moves of the other players. All bets are off n my mind when trying to predict enemy movement with press involved.

Can't add another FP game until this damn masters tournament ends and I'm certainly not a gunboater. Absolutely atrocious at it.

Full press is a whole different ball game from gunboat. It is much more difficult to master, imho.

I would love to play this game but I promised myself I would let my games die off and only play 2-3 at a time from now on...so I've got awhile before I can add another.

I thought you just wanted gunboaters, 2WL. I'm suck at gunboat so if you don't talk to me (and the gunboaters will tend not to) then I'll just get my ass kicked like I would in a gunboat.

I have such a honeyed tongue I simply have no interest in gunboat. I've an appreciation for stalemate lines and tactics, probably not as honed as they would be if I played GB. For me the fun of the game is the press, utilising persuasion and honed arguments to influence the other players and to predict their moves.

I played a game a few years ago called Circumlocutions where all the players had to write letters as if they were 'First Minister of France', and when I (as France) invaded England I wrote a little flavour about the black limousine pulling up outside No. 10 with the French Ambassador there to deliver the declaration of war. It was probably the most fun game I've had. I'd be well up for one of those again.

Its not a gunboat, Draug. I'd really just like to play a full press with players that mostly play gunboat, but anyone is welcome.

2WL,y2kjbk,Lando,Czech,me...
Barn?,CS?,Fairfax?,NoFog?,guak?,seth?,jmey?...

I'm game!