people do care. look at the tea party protests, occupy wallstreet, the greek protests. the middle east protests. pretty much everywhere in the world people know there is a problem, that wealth and power is being rapidly consolidated. people care, but those in power have enough power at this point that they can leverage what they have to get more.

the difference in power is extreme. they have experts in all fields at their disposal, they can convince people of things that are not true. if they can split dissent into 2 or more groups which each think the problem is the other group then nobody gets anywhere. a lot of people know there is a problem but dont know what the problem is. but people care.

Answer these questions with scores out of 10 based on how strongly you agree with the statement:-
1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me
2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression
3) Bankers need to be paid huge amounts of money and large bonuses or bad things might happen
4) People should have access to free basic medical care regardless of their personal financial status
5) The spread of Islam around the world threatens world peace and should be stopped
6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths
7) I want my govt to engage in war without consulting me if they think it is a good idea
8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't but it
9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics
10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society
11) We should not worry about human rights in countries that sell us cheap goods
12) War, per se, is not a good thing but we have to have goodies and baddies, it is impossible to work with every country in a positive way, some countries we have to go to war with to keep everyone else safe

in 8) but should read buy

1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me = 10
2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression = 9
3) Bankers need to be paid huge amounts of money and large bonuses or bad things might happen = 1
4) People should have access to free basic medical care regardless of their personal financial status = 10
5) The spread of Islam around the world threatens world peace and should be stopped = 2
6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths = 3
7) I want my govt to engage in war without consulting me if they think it is a good idea = 4
8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't buy it = 2
9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics = 2
10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society = 8
11) We should not worry about human rights in countries that sell us cheap goods = 1
12) War, per se, is not a good thing but we have to have goodies and baddies, it is impossible to work with every country in a positive way, some countries we have to go to war with to keep everyone else safe = 4

it would not shock me if some apathy comes from the top. the us military was funding research into putting something in flu vaccines that somehow make people less religiously extreme and then use it in the middle east. and now there are these lawsuits where flu vaccines were proven to cause narcolepsy.... reminds me of those dogs that now have extreme narcolepsy because their aggression was selectively bred out over generations.

@Nigee

To clarify, would a 1 be strongly disagree or I more or less agree but don't really give a damn?

We need 2 numbers for this one I think, because I strongly disagree with some of those and about others I don´t give a damn, feels wrong to give any number right now.

I think 1 should be strongly disagree.... 5 is indifferent, 10 is strongly agree

Then you still don´t know if we give a damn. Just saying.

I would also have trouble with explaining what bit of the comment I'm disagreeing with. Take 4 for example. I disagree on the basis that there is no such thing as free healthcare. Others may disagree based on the idea that the rich shouldn't have the right to free healthcare, and others on the principle that they shouldn't have to pay for the healthcare of others. Very different reasoning could give the same score.

@Octavious - we will all have a slightly different take on the statement which will shape our answer, perception is projection. You could always re-write it to give it clarity and make it easier for you to answer.

OT: no. It's just really fucking complicated to change the world.

Ok... I will modify the satements a tad, and add a few comments, but I will try and keep to the spirit of them as much as possible

1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me = 1

I am aware that foreigners are being killed even as we speak, and yet I cannot honestly claim to be upset in the slightest. I can only assume that those who say 10 live lives of constant torment and unimaginable grief. When particular cases are brought to me via charity campaigns, the news, and such like, it does attract my attention more (possibly a 3...). If the deaths are caused or aided by our government my concern would raise significantly (closer to a 7). If I happened to be in the place it was happening I would give it a 10.

2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression = 5

I am firmly sat on the fence on this issue. Too many bastards on both sides.

3) Bankers need to be paid the market rate or they will go and work in other banks. 9


4) British people should have access to free at the point of use basic medical care regardless of status = 10. (Other nations should have the right to decide their own priorities, no matter how crazy they seem)

5) The spread of religious fundamentalism around the world threatens world peace and we should what we can to counter it. 8

6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths = 8

Fighting a country openly training militants to attack our interests was worth doing. It should have been done better without the Iraq distraction

7) I want my govt to act without consulting me if they think it is a good idea = 10

My part is chosing which chap I want to represent me in parliament. I choose people based on their ability to make these choices. If they make a choice I strongly object to I will let them know via demonstrating. In a nutshell, don't call me, I'll call you.

8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't buy it = 10

9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics = 1

With all change there are benefits and disadvantages. This is no different.

They are not responsible for raising standards. They are responsible, however, for meeting standards and failing to do so should see them severely punished.

10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society = 5

Very much dependent on the society you're in. Where I am at the moment it's not a top priority by any means.

11) We should not worry about human rights in other countries = 3

Really not sure what cheap goods have to do with anything, but it is our duty to promote our moral standards.

12) War is sometimes necessary 10
It is. This is obvious.

The comment fo 8 somehow got pushed to the bottom of 9... but you've probably guessed that anyway :p

1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me ... 4

Not that I like it, but I can't say it 'really' upsets me in any way. I donate to places that try and stop it but I don't personally put much effort in.

2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression ... 1

Sigh...

3) Bankers need to be paid huge amounts of money and large bonuses or bad things might happen ... 0

I know zero isn't allowed. I don't give a damn. Zero.

4) People should have access to free basic medical care regardless of their personal financial status ... 10

Yes. A basic a human right is the right to live healthily. If society is crafted around money (it is), you must uphold the right to live healthily regardless of economics. Really simple.

5) The spread of Islam around the world threatens world peace and should be stopped ... 5

It's not the spread of Islam, it's the spread of the radical ways. So many reasons for this, but why go into it.. we all know.

6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths ... 0

Again, don't care if zero isn't allowed.

7) I want my govt to engage in war without consulting me if they think it is a good idea ... 6

I don't ever *want* my government to engage in war based on whether or not they think it's a good idea, but if they are provoked, I don't want them to hesitate either.

8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't but it ... 5

If the food is safe and made in halfway reasonable and humane ways, I agree. If it's made by illegal immigrants lured into factories that are supplied by underpaid farmers forced to treat their stock badly in order to make ends meet, then the companies are responsible.

9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics ... 5

In the short run, it may, but over time it would simply become a gender neutral position (not saying I don't want that), which would in turn make it an irrelevant issue. Women would be no different than men in those positions.

10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society ... 8

Without "given top priority" it would have been a 10.

11) We should not worry about human rights in countries that sell us cheap goods ... 1

Doesn't take much logical thinking to decide this one.

12) War, per se, is not a good thing but we have to have goodies and baddies, it is impossible to work with every country in a positive way, some countries we have to go to war with to keep everyone else safe ... 6

Closely connected with my response to #7.

"OT: no. It's just really fucking complicated to change the world."

I think maybe if individuals focused on just making themselves better people the world could probably look after itself, the only reason the world needs changing is due to the human beings that populate it and seem to go out of their way to destroy it.

I do believe I'm in danger of giving Nigee a +1...

Deep breaths...

Done!

(We'll make a Conservative out of you yet :) )

1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me - 5

It's not so much the deaths that upset me, people die all the time all over the world. It's more so the number of orphans that will have to suffer a long a miserable life as a result. I think that is a worse punishment than death, and that upsets me more.

2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression - 9

Personally I'm pro Palestine, but I agree neither side is perfect.

3) Bankers need to be paid huge amounts of money and large bonuses or bad things might happen - 6

Bankers do need to be paid big sums of money, otherwise they will just move abroad and we will be left with even shittier bankers. However I do think the sums of money that they are paid are a bit overboard.

4) People should have access to free basic medical care regardless of their personal financial status - 10

Everybody deserves to be treated the same in terms of health care.

5) The spread of Islam around the world threatens world peace and should be stopped - 5

The spread of Islam isn't the problem it's the spread of radicals. Being at university I have met many international students who are Muslims and they are all lovely people. I don't see a need to stop the spread of their religion. Anders Breivik was a Christian, just because he did a bad thing, doesn't mean we should stop Christianity. It's radicalists that need to be stopped.

6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths - 7

If peace is ensured in the long run, yes. However I think that is unlikely to be the case for a very long time. So this is largely hyopethetical based on that everything runs smoothly.

7) I want my govt to engage in war without consulting me if they think it is a good idea - 10

I don't have an expert knowledge on national security and international relations. I would have no worthwhile input, I would rather leave those decisions to the experts who have studied it and actually know in detail what they are talking about.

8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't buy it - 5

I really have no opinion on this.

9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics - 1

Change to achieve equality is good in my opinion.

10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society - 5

I'm quite impartial to this as I have had quite a sheltered up bringing. I do think that racism is a big issue, but I have not seen too much of it growing up. Perhaps in a few more years when I have more life experiences I will have a stronger opinion on this. I think I am still too young to feel strongly about this, as I have yet to seen racism in action.

11) We should not worry about human rights in countries that sell us cheap goods - 3

Of course we should worry about human rights, however the awful conditions that many workers are forced in help to keep certain economies internationally competetive and create trade. WIthout the breaches in human rights these countries would likely have lower profits and less money to fund development programs, thus in the long run creating an even larger development gap. Of course it is awful to see what some people have to work in, however it may be for the greater good in the long run. I feel awful just saying that... But perhaps a short term sacrifice is necessary. Not that I like it in any way...

12) War, per se, is not a good thing but we have to have goodies and baddies, it is impossible to work with every country in a positive way, some countries we have to go to war with to keep everyone else safe - 10

Yes of course. If for example North Korea does decide to initiate a nuclear war, humanity would potentially in peril. Exterminating North korea would be vile and inhumane, but probably for the greater good in terms of humanity.


I would be interested to see some feedback on my opinions.

Number 1) Results 10, 1, 4, 5 - with that kind of indifference on the subject govts won't see that it is important to stop the foreign bloodshed. Of course they will then pick their fights such as Libya and Mali. It reminds me of a joke about 2 rednecks watching 2 black guys in a boxing match and one says to the other, "who do you want to win" and the other one says "who cares".
In pure financial terms it would make no sense the West taking an anti-war stance as they are the biggest exporters of arms in the world, you could say we promote and enable war by selling as much weaponry as possible to Johnny Foreigner.
An outbreak of peace would be have a big impact on exports and unemployment.

Number 2) Results 9, 5, 1, 9 - fair to say that this issue viewed very differently in Europe than it is in the US who seem much more pro-Israeli/anti-Arab.
As the USA majority-finance the UN you can see why there are a number of outstanding resolutions against the Israeli govt that will go nowhere.
What do China and Russia feel about the Israeli/Palestinian, obviously not enough to do anything about it.

"1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me"
4, I don't like it, but I don't think we should risk even more lives by getting involved.
"2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression"
This has been a tough issue for me, one that I have been on both parts of the debate (mostly just to troll people), I understand that Israel is treating Palestinians as second class citizens, but that said Israel is the only liberal democracy in the region, so its a tough issue. Personally I don't think we should stop supporting (and funding) Israel, but we should go against it either. So I guess, 1.
"3) Bankers need to be paid huge amounts of money and large bonuses or bad things might happen"
9, I think Octavious said it best.
"4) People should have access to free basic medical care regardless of their personal financial status"
6, I like Singapores healthcare system the best. If you can't afford it, it comes out of pension, meaning you have to retire later, but at least you don't become bankrupt.
"5) The spread of Islam around the world threatens world peace and should be stopped "
1, the rise of theocracies (that happen to be muslim) threaten world peace. That said we shouldn't get involved, we have too many problems at home
"6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths"
1, already covered this in #1 and #5
"7) I want my govt to engage in war without consulting me if they think it is a good idea"
-10, I don't want my government to engage in war, period.
"8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't but it"
10, LET THE FREE MARKET DECIDE!
"9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics"
7, there would be some good changes, but probable more bad changes.
"10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society"
2, race is an overplayed card and I oppose affirmative action, etc.
"11) We should not worry about human rights in countries that sell us cheap goods"
10, ironically US corporations looking for cheap labour have done more for human development in undeveloped countries then government issued foriegn aid.
"12) War, per se, is not a good thing but we have to have goodies and baddies, it is impossible to work with every country in a positive way, some countries we have to go to war with to keep everyone else safe"
-100, FREE TRADE IS BEST TRADE!

Number 3) Results - 1, 6, 0.
Fair to say that bankers are probably overpaid for what they do. Bankers do move from bank to bank on a regular basis but that does not mean they are not paid too much. The idea that the Worlds bankers will all move abroad if we pay them less is a common quote, anybody ever been to Zurich, Hong Kong, Singapore ...... there is no space to put an extra 250,000 money grabbing ex-pats so chances are this probably won't happen. Also Eton, Harrow, Oxford & Cambridge are all near London so once again chances of a mass exodus are fairly unlikely. Also there would be plenty more people queueing up to take their place at half their salary should the exodus occur.

Quick scores update:
1) 10, 1, 4, 5, 4
2) 9, 5, 1, 9, 1
3) 1, 6, 0 (plus 2 pro-highly-paid bankers)

That is really really bias niggee, ignoring the scores of people who disagree with you on #3.

@Fasces - I'm not ignoring the scores, you have responded to a different statement which in part negates the first statement, I think it is accurate to say that you are pro-bankers but if you want I can put a score of 1 in for the original statement so that it makes some sense. It is true that bankers move from bank to bank based on a series of financial inducements, but the original statement suggests that bankers must be paid very high incomes for the sake of our society,

But I do agree with that statement. Banks are hated on and to must of us their value is under appreciated.

Without banks we would be still be living in the 1300s. The ability to take out loans has vastly benefited society and people don't appreciate that.

If there were no banks almost nobody could buy a house, since there would be no mortgages.

If there were no banks there would be much less consumer goods since most companies need to raise equity though debt in the early years of business.

Banks are under appreciated and I believe that they have earned almost every penny they have. The only area I disagree with is how they were bailed out in 2008, but Canada's banks weren't so on the banking issue, I have no complaint with the status quo. Hence why I gave it a 9.

1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me
10
2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression
7
3) Bankers need to be paid huge amounts of money and large bonuses or bad things might happen
3
4) People should have access to free basic medical care regardless of their personal financial status
10
5) The spread of Islam around the world threatens world peace and should be stopped
2
6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths
3
7) I want my govt to engage in war without consulting me if they think it is a good idea
8
8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't but it
0
9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics
0
10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society
9
11) We should not worry about human rights in countries that sell us cheap goods
0
12) War, per se, is not a good thing but we have to have goodies and baddies, it is impossible to work with every country in a positive way, some countries we have to go to war with to keep everyone else safe
4

1) Foreigners getting killed abroad really upsets me = 9
2) Palestinians should have support from the UN to stop Israeli aggression = 10
3) Bankers need to be paid huge amounts of money and large bonuses or bad things might happen = 6
4) People should have access to free basic medical care regardless of their personal financial status = 8
5) The spread of Islam around the world threatens world peace and should be stopped = 1
6) The war in Afghanistan is a price worth paying in money and deaths = 3
7) I want my govt to engage in war without consulting me if they think it is a good idea = 0
8) I agree that food producers are not responsible for raising food standards, if the consumer doesn't like it they won't but it = ?
9) Nothing would change for the better if women had more senior positions in the church, business & politics = 4
10) Racism is a very serious issue that should be given top priority by society = 7
11) We should not worry about human rights in countries that sell us cheap goods = 2
12) War, per se, is not a good thing but we have to have goodies and baddies, it is impossible to work with every country in a positive way, some countries we have to go to war with to keep everyone else safe = 3

@Fasces ... I'm not against banks, I am against dependence on banks. Selling ourselves out to banks gets us in trouble every 20-30 years.

Quite a few people are lying in #1. Foreigners getting killed abroad happens every day, I wouldn't be surprised if a dozen or so die while I type this post, your not doing anything about it, your not crying, you on webdiplomacy talking.

"@Fasces ... I'm not against banks, I am against dependence on banks. Selling ourselves out to banks gets us in trouble every 20-30 years."
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't. The trendline, in GDP per capita, is a straight line with a positive slope, recessions are just outliers, a blip on the trend.

GDP per capita is already higher then when it was before the recession began.

The fact is we should be dependent on banks because banks are required for economic growth, at least I can't see any other system that could responsibly assist is raising capital.

Fasces I am genuinely sad for all the foreigners killed every day, even while talking on webdip. Just because you can't imagine a certain emotion, don't assume that it doesn't exist.

Well you still shouldn't put it at a 10 because its not like its your top priority and all you think about.

It is actually. I'm writing a book about it.

well then i sand corrected

It's one of my main concerns, fasces. You should know this community better.

Nah thucy its not one of your main concerns, your main concern is racism and sexism