In F2F games you can see when people have put orders in.

You can save orders (eliminating the !!) even if your units are holding. It's like turning in a blank piece of paper for your "orders" in a F2F game. It looks like you've done something, but really you haven't.

Another major issue is that you can tell when someone will NMR, which doesn't typically happen in F2F, and knowing someone will NMR can seriously change a game.

The other point I forgot is that I dont like that you can see when someone else is online. Sometimes I want to check on a game but don't feel like responding. However, It think it sometimes has diplomatic implications.

@Yonni, I normally go to www.webdiplomacy.net where I am auto-logged on. When I want to look at one of my games without anyone knowing I was logged on, I go to webdiplomacy.net where I'm not auto-logged on since the cookies are kept track of separately. Of course I have to have bookmarked my games or do other things to find them when not logged on.

Thanks. Didn't know it worked like that.

@Alderian, thanks for the tip, nice trick! Wouldn't it be easier to just eliminate the "Last seen" stat for all games?

Yeah, the other thing I do is as soon as I see I need to put orders in, I'll input a safe set of orders or something. Then I will get down to diploming and change my orders as necessary. This is just a step to ensure that if something happens and I don't get another chance to input orders, I at least won't NMR.

Or, if you want your presence to be unknown, just play anonymous games. If you want to know who you are playing, then form the game on the forum.

As much as I like knowing who I'm playing, it is a relief to currently only be in anonymous games and know I can log on and read messages and don't feel like I have to respond.

I learned right away that checks and last seens can be used to huge advantage. Taken advantage of many NMRs this way, and was nearly fooled once when some asshole waiting until :30 before rollover to submit.

I guess I'm just being fussy but i like being able to see who I'm talking to but also not let people know when I'm online

In theory, as long as not everyone else had ready-ed, one could toggle between ready and save in a gunboat to send a message via morse code. Pretty sure that would be against the spirit of the rules though.

You'd also need the other person to coordinate refreshing their page at a sufficient rate.

I have to admit that I also don't like this feature. This is especially true for knowing if orders has been submitted. A NMR can break the game enough as it is, and "knowing" it's coming before it actually happens just gives the beneficiary an even larger benefit from it.

I've been meaning to dig into the code. I think that there may be a need to put in a feature that, in the last 50% of the time remaining, the !! and checks are removed. That way, you just have to assume the orders are in.

As some have mentioned, just clicking 'save' will put in all holds, which is the same as an NMR. The other level of diplomacy it CAN add, however, is the 'ready' check. While it is meant as a courtesy for speeding up a game when people won't change orders, it can also be used as a diplomacy tool (even though it officially isn't). For example, I can say that I put in the orders my ally wants and 'readied' them to 'prove' I won't change them. Stuff like that.

Of course, it can have the opposite effect as well. Someone readies early, then tells me he'll change his plans to my idea. Um... yeah, right!

I'd rather only have the !! seen by the person who hasn't entered orders and noone see who has readied or hasn't, just a list of who has orders for that turn and a count of something like "4/5 have readied their orders" on the screen. Then whether you have submitted orders and redied them or not is not visible to everyone else, but everyone knows if they have orders in and redied them for themselves *and* if they haven't if readying will trigger a move to the next phase or not (i.e. is 3/5 readied, or 4/5?)

I pretty much agree, Draugnar. The !! are very helpful to see when your games that require your orders. However, letting others see it could give unintended diplomatic effects.

That just gave me a new idea. How about a notification in the game bar that alerts you when a new phase has began, not just when it's a phase which you have orders to submit. For instance, after fall, you may not have builds, but depending on the action, you might want to conduct diplomacy during the build phase, but could potentially miss it if you don't happen to check that game during that time. This notification could be similar to the "new message" notification in that it will be active until you check the game for the first time after the new phase. Or, during a retreat phase, you may want to conduct diplomacy during the retreat phase when you don't have a retreat yourself. There's definitely the potential to miss these type of phases if you aren't frequently checking each game.

"just a list of who has orders for that turn and a count of something like "4/5 have readied their orders""

+1 Draug, that's a pretty great idea