However, almost *every* major company fucked up and alot of them would've failed.

You're saying "We should let them do whatever they want, and hopefully all of them don't work together to fuck up majorly."

Sooooo.... We should *let* thousands of people lose everything they own because most of the top companies fucked up....

Oh, and not to mention we should allow the companies that didn't fail to turn into mega-corporations from the corpses of the fallen ones, because monopolies have worked so well in the past.

'If your using the human body as your example, THE CELLS HAVE TO BE THE HUMANS. IF NOT WHAT DO THEY REPRESENT?
You said it yourself, where neurons should be those who govern society. Neurons require the digestive system for the necessary nutrients to stay a live.'

yes, and as i said, some parts of the human body are like tools which we use to feed transport and defend ourselves. (ok i only said leg is like a gun.... but digestive system is like a farm/supermarket/restaurant...) I was comparing social interactions to neuron interactions. I didn't pretend that social interactions happened in a vacumn, without any source of food etc...

'Even if we are to use the human body as an example, it supports communist oligarchy.' - use the human brain, with other parts of society as necessary components of the whole, but with the humans are the brain - thus a train driver is the motor neuron who controls parts of the transport system... etc.

This does not support communist oligarchy. There is no 'proof' that biological evolution gives the 'best' answer to how society should organise. There are only workable examples to derive inspiration from.

Communist oligarchy where everyone is equal (but still with specialized tasks for each person) if one possible interpretation for this neuron=person model.

However another is the free market capitalist one. Here again everyone shares but based on market prices and the ability to pay rather than some kind of social alturism.

In any case, i'm argueing for replacing democracy with a de-centralized, inclusive (ie non-authorative) self-organized governance, which doesn't think the democratic decision making methods ar the be-all and end-all of public life. Further replacing the current centralized media/propaganda machine with a de-centralized, unprofessionaly citizen-journalism based on the everyone having internet access and perhaps Digg articles being published as news-papers... (though Digg may not be the best example)

A knowledge base where wikipedia replaces all 'professional' encyclpopedias, and thus 'specialists' become very worried about mistakes in wikipedia and enter into public debate (on wikipedia discussion pages, freely available to all) about what should be in the -pedia.

A educational system where wikibooks are taught and copyright is a thing of the past. An entirely people powered system. Where people feel empowered to change their personal circumstances for the betterment of themselves and their community. A community based society which puts the primacy of the family aside (in law and in common understanding of what it means to be kin) in favour of a community of peers (and that's where i reveal that i'm a commune-ist :P).

oh, and now more corporatism!

nor nation-states or borders!

'However, neurons are all identical, they all have the exact same chromosomes governing how they work. Humans are different.'

humans all have the same human DNA. In the same way as neurons both develop based on their environment and some neurons are different (interstitial ones which connect over global rather than local connections) or have different protiens/brain chemisty going on in their environment, which all leads to different genes being active (on and off, of coding/non-coding)

infact, obviously each kind of human cell has the same DNA, but motor neurons are different from sensory neurons based on their configuration with relation to the rest of the body... In fact humans are more alike because they can change their environmental circumstances and swap places with each other, learn to do each other's jobs and take advantage of the neuro-flexibility which the brains allows... (not that they are neccesarily GOING to be able to do this, but they are not physically incapable)

so if interchange is possible between humans when it's not possible within the brain, we're more alike than neurons. :p

And in case i didn't mention, the brain can take on many different forms, it has specialized parts which control/represent/are active in specialized types of activity (like moral judgement or disgust responce) - these have equivalent human jobs.

It is possible to draw the analogy so far as to support any 'type' of social interaction. (which isn't too surprising given that our brain is the part of us which does social interactions) but the example i was trying to make was on of how each neuron is part of the governance/free will of the body with no specific neuron doing all the decision making.

The sum is greater than the whole!

Well, Mubarak is out. Seems the military is in charge(not really clear from the news).

The easy part is over, it seems.

"Easy part", hundreds died. That's hardly easy.

Especially since a couple of weeks ago mucky mucks in the western media were saying this could never happen.

No, its easy to get rid of a dictator. Its a bit harder to replace him with something else that works.

Like I said. The easy part of protesting and making him go away is over. The hard part of making sure they don't end up with another strongman begins.

Ok Jack. But let the people of Egypt have this moment without diminishing their achievement.

And last night they had been saying the government was preparing for a violent police action. The people stayed. That's courage. To claim that shit 'easy' is an insult to the lives lost.

Let them have their moment...and what a moment it IS!

Even elaving aside the obviosu and troublesome question of how to set up the democracy they want...

To oust a dictator and his regime of 30+ years like that through NON-violent protesting--except when they themselves were attacked and had to defend themselves--is something special, especially for the Middle East...AMAZING pictures from Cairo right now.

Anyone think this might continue now that it's been proven to work in Tunisia and now Egypt? Jordan and Yemen are protesting...again, I'm personally hoping for Twitter War II in Iran, since they started this a year or so ago.

Its only easy in comparison. You're missing the point.

This is the stage in which revolutions tend to get difficult, and while they should enjoy the triumph, they should also be ready for a lot of hard work. This won't be a three week protest, but months and years of work.

Also, Mubarak is 82. At that age, he has to have subordinates who carried out policy. This could be nothing but a bit of musical chairs to get the protesters to calm down and, as Fasces put so.... eloquently (sarcasm!) shut the fuck up and go home.

I'm cautiously optimistic. But this shit isn't over, not by a long shot.

While "easy" wasn't the best word choice, I think Jack has a very good point.

While the Egyptians should be proud and excited for what they've done, if at the end of the day, they only get a different dictator, then they haven't accomplished that much.

Now, I'm not saying that's what I think will happen, but it's a real possibility. They've already done much more than people have expected, but it's unarguably true that removing a government is far easier than creating a good one.

This thread has been chock full of doom and gloom and at every turn been proven wrong. The military is in charge of running this transition, not Suleiman. The military has enormous prestige and considers itself a pillar of the people. Nobody thought Mubarak would step down. Mubarak was one of the most entrenched leaders in the M Middle East. He's gone.

Yeah, you're right Putin, let's just throw caution to the wind and not even entertain the notion that this revolution could have anything less than a perfect resolution.

Yeah, sorry I've grown tired of western e-"democrats" and their continual cynicism and henny penny attitude.

joyous people in the streets, i'm sure fasces will tell us their happiness will not last, but this is truely a historic moment, (the kind which is written about in history books and remembered in people's memories) And while the eleation will die down, and the reality of their new system will hit them soon, we do base our memory on stories, not on a detailed recollection of individual feelings and sensory input.

We remember the idea, and their revolution is the successful application of an idea of freedom in their country.

I am truely glad that it only took 18 days. And i hope the military is going to act as the benevolent dictator fasces always dreams about, and holds the interest of the people of Egypt above all else.

Cautious optimism. The point I was making is that its excellent that Mubarak is gone.

The issue now is that the opposition was united in their desire for Mubarak to be gone, and now that that is accomplished, new patterns and new coalitions can be formed.

C'mon, as Diplomacy players, all of us have had that 3 way alliance to put a stop to a dominant player, and then had that alliance fall by the wayside when one member thought they didn't need the other two anymore.

To quote Churchill: "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps the end of the beginning". I just hope they enjoy the triumph, but keep in mind that its just a beginning.

it could be the end as well, most recent revolutions have gone very smoothly, and any strongman who tries to seize control of a nation the size and diversity of Egypt with the current media attention better have his shit together

So the deeply unpopular military chap who ran Egypt for 30 years has been replaced by new military chaps suspiciously close to when the 82 year old president was thinking of retirement anyway. It looks more like rebranding than revolution to me.

I wonder what the military will do? Will they deliver on their promises, or will Egypt turn into another Burma?

Another variable is the extremists. If extremists grab Egypt, will they (attempt to) invade Israel?

Putin - 1 for ridiculous idealism.