excellent game everyone.

i wish you'd have given our alliance a little more chance, troodonte. that being said, my centers were there for the taking, so i can't really blame you for moving on them.

aaand I clicked too fast.

1904 - My attempt to break support in ION in the fall of 1903 payed unexpected dividends with Italy's withdrawal to face the French threat; this lets me convoy into APU - and a second convoy in the fall gets me Naples. I now have two armies on the Italian mainland.

1905 and 1906 pass in a blur. I reshuffle units to move another fleet to the Med (which Russia takes as a threat and reoccupies SEV with an army, after disbanding the fleet earlier), and lose Naples, but retreat into Rome.

1907 - I decide that France is a serious threat for a solo, so I throw up a 'draw' vote, hoping to unite people against him. I also move on the assumption that Italy and Austria will continue to move on me.

Unfortunately - on some levels - they do *not*. - both enter a draw vote after I've finalized, along with Russia, and both move against France, which leaves me looking like a tool for taking Naples from Italy - I decide to move out of Rome and allow him to retake it... and then Russia *withdraws* his draw vote.

This leaves me in a bit of a dilemma, as I have diddly in place to stop the SEV army from doing an end run into my backfield. Sorry Austria and Italy - I was *going* to try to play nice, but paranoia got the best of me, so I grabbed two Austrian centers to add to my Italian one.

1908 and on - At this point I was having a good run, and was wondering where I'd get my 18. Russia, unfortunately, decided that I was coming for him, and blocked my move to GAL, which let Austria survive until 1909. I moved into Ven and *out* of it, wanting Italy to be able to defend TUN, but instead I ended up with an Italian fleet in my backfield, that took until 1911 to eliminate. I should have been greedy and just wiped him, but thems the breaks.

Russia and England were sparring over Norway, which was giving France far too much room to expand. England moved full force on Russia, and while Russia ceded Norway back, France had grabbed London.

Russia did what I consider a pretty decent disband in Sweden at that point, which allowed England to turn around. France grabbed Sweden for an extra build, but the majority of his fleet was facing off with me, which would have given England room to take the fight to him. France apparently saw the writing on the wall, and voted for the draw once Italy was eliminated

I was kinda hoping he'd procrastinate on that and give me the opportunity to take advantage of his distraction, England (who had previously not voted for the draw) voted as well, and that's how it ended.

Notes:
Austria, Italy - sorry about that one stab, that wasn't (originally) my intent.
Russia: Good use of moves to work together. Also probably wise of you to disband the fleet in the end instead of giving me motivation to get greedy ;)
Germany: We really didn't interact at all, you were gone by the time our borders touched
England: I thought you were insane to move back on Norway, but it seemed to have worked for you
France: I think I could have hammered through the med eventually, by swapping the army in PIE with another fleet, but good timing on the blocking maneuvers there.

As Russia I did my level best to stop Portugal from winning. More comments to follow. Good game strat, and thanks for going for the stalemate rather than the stab.

Where's Troo's commentary?

EOG Statement for Russia:

1901: I open North, hoping not to find an army in ARM. Luckily for me Strat picks the standard Turkey opening. I bounce in BLA and GAL, and decide to let A/T fight it out and that I would choose the winner between the two. I see weak/less aggressive England and Germany openings (though France must've been a little worried) and manage to snag both Scandinavian builds. I decide to support hold in RUM as once Austria is done with the Balkans Russia is an easier target than Turkey. The Western three don't get a whole lot of builds and all looks set for a jugger. Looks like Italy sees it from a mile and is planning Lepanto. Turkey builds accordingly.

1902: Whoops, looks like Italy turns around for a quick blitz of Austria. I had moved A MOS-UKR as a defensive measure and repositioned in the north so as to attack DEN or convoy into EDI/CLY later. However, I made the mistake of moving A NOR-FIN instead of A NOR-SWE. I think I did this so that in the event of a bounce with England in SKA I could still have the fleets out West. Turns out it put me in the defensive. I let Turkey into BLA and he takes the signal well. In Autumn, all of a sudden Italy double-feints and wants to go for Greece it seems. I would never convoy an army into Greece against Turkey. But whatever, ya know, different styles etc. England seems to have a plan of his own and builds F EDI, pretending the French danger doesn't exist. It seems like we all agree Germany must go, so I just stick with that plan.

1903: I move to take DEN, making another crucial mistake by trying to bounce England in NWG, the move succeeding for me unfortunately. However, good chance of a build since Germany has left BER open. Turkey makes good progress and moves F BLA-RUM signaling friendship. France apparently sees England's friendly build as a sign that the jugger is a danger that must be combated. E/F get more builds, I get BER but it's isolated, and England has declared war by taking DEN. Austria decides to go batshit on Turkey and at this point I know that it's The Czech :P Unfortunately for him, Italy takes TRI to get a build. I wonder why France hasn't moved to Western Med yet.

1904: Germany plays some weird retreating and attacking Austria. Not the best defense I've seen but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as his days were definitely numbered. I move to SIL hoping to build some sort of temp stalemate, while trying to defend in the North. At this point, I realize Turkey will probably wipe through the board and so I have to start prepping for the stab. England is moving his fleets to surround Scandinavia so I have to try to guess his moves and use strategy as best as I can. He ends up taking NOR so I have to disband, and France does some weird moves like moving into BOH which makes me believe that they haven't noticed that Turkey is the real danger of soloing and that I am on the back foot. But I think France did well at that point not to attack Italy but just stand there in the meds in case. I disband in SEV and say a few mantras hoping Turkey doesn't stab.

1905: I take back NOR but by now England has moved too far into Scandinavian waters to be good for me or him and definitely risks a stab by France. In fact, I can confidently say that I called it when France took a bunch of English territories later next year. France also moves to SIL and isolates my BER army. But he doesn't take BER, choosing to move to GAL instead, which bothers me. England takes SWE, but no net change as I take NOR.

1906: At this point I decide it's time to pull back and try for the draw/survive. I retreat from BER, NOR, SWE, FIN, WAR (I moved war-ukr as I feared a Turkish stab on Sev which has been open and tempting for some time). The only unit still left attacking is F BAR which is just chilling there hitting England. But (surprise surprise) France has stabbed England is looking for a solo I'm sure. France gets three builds in erstwhile Germany. I take back Norway so I only lose Berlin and disband up North. I am just going for the draw from here on in and watching the game.

1907: At this point England should've stopped attacking me. I guess Scandinavia was a point of contention but I felt entitled to those SCs as I'd started the game with them. It was definitely possible for him to just put up a defense of his home soil without having to fight for the additional SC up North. At this point, Austria has taken back Tri and decides he wants to go stop France in MUN. I like this idea and my suspicions that the Czech is playing the Archduke are reinforced. I move to SIL but the coordination is looking to be impossible. Turkey is looking dangerously large also but he is doing some funny things in Italy and not taking Austria. I'd have just blitzed through for the solo :P As I predict, in Autumn Turkey goes for two Austrian and one Italian more SC and I'm now pretty scared of losing SEV. He's gone and built armies, too, so I try to console myself that I had a strong start. I allow England to keep Norway hoping he understands that we're trying to prevent either of two possible solos. I just as well might have taken it as it is just that one turn when England decides not to attack NOR.

1908: I take NOR. Turkey allows I/A to live with one SC each, and France doesn't move on WAR although he's in position to. Weird. Neither of these people is looking like they even remotely want to solo.

1909: All of a sudden, England abandons his attack on France! Abandons! I ask why? Maybe he though Turkey would solo and he would let France fight him. But that is frustrating news for me as he comes back with his 3 fleets towards Scandinavia. Italy slips through into Aegan Sea which keeps me a little happy that Turkey has a stray unit to deal with. Italy gets CON and survives. Austria is finished. I abandon Scand.

1910: Turkey finishes off Italy. I move armies into PRU and SIL for the stalemate. Turkey's armies in BOH and TYR complement the stalemate. All I need is to move A SEV-MOS to complete the stalemate in the North and hope that Turkey doesn't stab and pushes for the Med stalemate. France is starting to eat into England as well and is looking quite dangerous.

And then the game draws, prematurely imho. It was still possible to take England out or me out and go for a 3WD or 2WD.

Anyhow.

@ava - why did you un-draw in 1907?

I was trying to signal that we really should be doing at least 4wd and eliminate a and I.

Hey strat...how on earth are we only 2 apart? Weird.

You've been playing more games recently than I, and I tend to get my ass handed to me when I go up in high pot games against the big guns ;)

I've opened up another one, I'm curious if a PPSC game will make it more cutthroat....

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=33452

There is generally less team work in PPSC :P

and I had never thought of using the draw as a signal for alliances, good idea. Thanks for all the gunboat tips :D

Damn, just a little too steep for me as I need 15 spare points for league games and the Lutheran game and nothing is that close to finishing up (still got a couple days on the Azogar Invitational).

As Italy I tried to work with Austria. After Austria lost Serbia, Greece was a sitting duck so I thought I'd grab Trieste while I still could. Turkey's signals were confusing (and still are ;p), but given their 3 fleets I figured they'd always be trouble. I think I could have held them off if I hadn't had the threat of French fleets. Even though they eventually supported Tunis to hold, the build in Mars was enough to force me to guard against two fronts.

Not sure if or how I would play it differently next time.

ava, you attacked me in 1907. if you look, in autumn '06, i didn't support myself in norway so you could take it back and not have to disband a second unit. i could have held it, bounced in the north sea, and built another fleet in lvp, which in hindsight i should have done.

even after we flip flopped sweden for norway in '07 (which i thought was beneficial), you still continued to attack me in '08, going for norway instead of moving into the baltic and putting pressure on den, kiel and berlin. you bypassed an opportunity to fight france just to stick it to me.

why cripple me when i was your best defense against france reaching scandinavia?

how is what you did in '08 any different than what i did in '09?

other than that one thing though, great game ava. it was a fun battling for scandinavia against you.

Thanks everyone for this game. It was really fun, even though I think I haven't played it very well.

These are the possible EOG statements after 24h at work with no sleep... sorry for the confusing writting...

I started in a good way, with a safe opening. Only got 1 build, but benefited from an England without builds and a north opening by Russia. It was easy to decide who to attack 1st... and here I think Friendly sword didn't play that well... he saw me and england bouncing the channel in S01, but he decided that he had to bounce me in belgium in fall. Well if England was weak and probably a good 1st target he was also a possible ally with no risk of stab (at least in the 1st turns). Quicly England decided he could trust me even though I remained in the channel for some turns.

The most difficult decision for me in this game was the timing to stab the English and I think I choose wrong... It would have been better if I did it before (1903) or some time after I did it... When I did it i was envolved in the south, in the north and east with Russia. I tried to support Russia and get him on my side helping destroy England and try to control Turkey, but he never answered to my cooperation attempts...

Meanwhile, Turkey had everything too easy :) noone seemed able to stop. So, my fleets in the med were there to help Italy or try to make a quick grab if he was destroyed. I got Tunis which could be an important sc in stalemating the turkish.

By the time of the draw I think I had no chance os soloing and geting involved in war with England (with no fleets to cover MAO) and Russia, made me fear the turkish solo, so I wanted to take the chance of drawing while it was there.

Ava: I think you exposed too much to the turkish stab...

stratagos: I think you could have un-draw without risking being eliminating, but "risking" a solo if me and England weren't able to reach peace again...
Tunis was still possible for you to get it, sev, mos, war and eventually one of the german sc's...
you could eventually be stopped at 17, but I would have tried.

Who wants to play again? :D

Hi all!!

So I am willing here to admit that I played if not the worst, at least one of the worst gunboat Germany’s of all time. The fact that I only lasted until 1905 provides justification for that bold claim.

Anyway, I decided early on that since Russian northern openings and juggernaughts are comparatively more rare in gunboat games, I’d give the Russian a break and try for either an alliance with France or England.

The first move struck me as a bit unexpected (ie Russian and Turkish friendship) and the northern opening looked a little worrisome. But more positively, England looked to be under attack from both France and Russia, engaged against France, and no doubt wouldn’t ruin a possible relationship with Germany. France meanwhile, looked somewhat dangerous and I didn't trust him with a second build.

With that in mind, I (foolishly) presumed/hoped that England would let me into Denmark, and I contemplated how I would move against France. In hindsight I definitely should have been more aggressive and moved to Belgium with support from Ruhr, following up into Holland, but I rolled the dice as to Burgundy’s and North Sea’s intentions and guessed wrong on both counts. The problem here was that since I was feeling aggressive against the French, I assumed the same from them, and likewise with regards to solidarity towards Britain’s position and danger from France/Russia.

It is worth mentioning, Troodonte, that I felt you were a bigger threat and less of alliance material with the support move to Burgundy. Perhaps I was wrong? I’d like to believe that I wasn’t totally screwed from the get-go. ^^ Perhaps it would have been better to let you into Belgium and let England into Denmark, but I highly doubt I would have survived even to 1905.

In any case, I wasn’t doing very well at all by this point (1901), but I still had hopes for allying with England and perhaps France in response to eastern expansion. Russia, by this point holding Norway and Sweden thanks to England’s move to Denmark, was looking monstrous, so I built a fleet in Kiel to move against Scandinavia. Alas, the western powers (especially England) neglected to notice or chose to ignore my attempted overtures of friendship, and so began the Western steamroller.

By 1903 I had abandoned any hope of anything from France or England who had easily resolved their initial violence and instead I tried to get support from Russia. Clearly, this wasn’t succeeding by that fall, as all three powers worked together to eat me. :P

With all hope lost at holding Kiel against enemies with no apparent quarrel with eithother, I chose in vain to try a grab at an Austrian centre as an attempt to survive as a rogue Balkan state. Sadly, the area was too saturated by armies so I was defeated.

Some bad diplomacy, terrible tactics, and a bit of bad luck cemented my ridiculously speedy exit and eighth straight elimination. :)P



I just want to hear from trip why he so totally ignored France/Russia and all the threats they posed after fall 1901 and focused on defeating Germany, which, as it turns out, was not that great of a course of after all.

england eog statement:

i decided to start with the strongest possible anti-french opening. i knew that it was a 50/50 shot to get into the channel, but once i headed east, i would be at france's mercy until i secured scandinavia. that didn't work out at all. along with bouncing in the channel, russia opened with mosc to stp, so there was no build for me the first year. germany opened with a pro-russian f-kiel to hol, so i decided to block his a-kiel from denmark and concede the channel in an attempt to not only repair my relations with france, but to give us a common enemy. germany blocking france from belg really made that work.

the second year i got a little lucky. hoping that germany would push north to take den, i slipped into hel to put pressure on hol. germany did exactly as i hoped, moving into den and the baltic, leaving hol unprotected. i got lucky when russia, while rearranging units in scandinavia, left sweden open, forcing him to protect in the fall instead of taking over the norw/north sea.

i was having a hard enough time taking kiel after that (until germany disbanded it???) when russia decided to completely abandon his south in an all out effort to take and hold scandinavia. this forced me to use all but one of my units just to get into position to start taking centers. unfortunately, as i had feared, right as i gained the upper hand against the russian, france walked into hol and destroyed me in kiel.

i was reeling at that point. i was fortunate that france had to use an overwhelming majority of his navy in the med, and was able to set up a blockade of fleets around my home. i had abandoned my center in norway, hoping that the russia would leave it alone and move against france by taking the baltic. that didn't happen. with france concentrating on the med though, i was able to take a huge/calculated risk and went back to retake norway. even after doing that, i was still able to slip back into the nao, ec and north. this forced france to cover his costal centers, leaving mun and ber one unit for support. i was also in position to screw up his position in the med, so i voted for the draw hoping that france would not want to take the risk of turkey going solo. he didn't.

@ friendly sword: i had to ally with france at that point. when you opened with f-kiel to hol, it was a signal to me that you wanted to ally with russia, and russia was coming. i could have blocked norway, but i still wouldn't have been in a position to take a center the next year. bouncing with france in the ec again would have gotten me nowhere either. blocking you in den kept you to one build and left kiel covered (that fleet you built was in berlin). it all worked as i planned as you and russia inadvertantly created a clusterfuck in scandinavia while i walked into holland.

troodonte, i'm up for another, but i'm a little low on dip points.

also friendly, i think the supported move to burg by france is as much about defense as putting pressure on belg and munich. if you're france, and you're going to open f-brest to ec, having a unit in burgandy for the fall move guarantees a build if the fleet bounces and italy opens to pie.