Rasputin: I don't want to make it personal, just clarify that I've finished university a long time ago, and with very good califications. And if I have a bad grammar is because I don't speak english. But you are very cleaver, you must noticed it. I think that you understood quite well, so the comment was very childish from you (or stupid).

I can't belive what you think: just the first cruzade counts? Only four years within four centuries of war, invasion, death, slavery, expropriation and recession? And you really think you are intelligent? You don't have neither the basic knowledge. (and of courese knowledge and intelligence are not the same, look again at this example)

But now I understand why you are stupid: if you think that 4 centuries of bloody war doesn't count, what could be a copule of years killing people in Vietnam, Corea, Granada, Nicaragua, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq 1, Iraq 2, etc? Winter games?

In my country, once there was a democratic president who wanted to nationalize the oil. USA support a coup and put a functional puppet at government. A few years later, the next democratic president wanted to nationalize laboratories, but USA support a coup and put a functional puppet at government.
Do I need to tell you that those business was in USA companie's hands? Do I need to tell you that a lot of persons died during those cups, just to keep the profit of a comercial society? And I was alive, this is not ancient history.
By the way, this is also the topic that we were talking about. Right now USA is supporting a coup in Bolivia, so Bolivia "fired" the USA ambassador accused of "conspiring against democracy" and encouraging the country's break-up. Venezuela also dismiss the USA ambassador in solidarity.
So I can't really blame on you, because if you are young and you are learning history in USA, you must be convinced that your contry have been saving all of us from evil nazis, atheistic communists and now of unfaithful terrorists. But if you live in the third world and you are not dumb, you will see that the real cause is to develope his war industry, to pillage natural resources, to impose their enterprises and to kill anyone who don't like the idea.
I'm sure that not all of the USA citizens are as heartless as you.

aoe3rules : of course people went to war pulled by some idea, but they can't decide. The ones who starts the war, they just use the idea (evil enemies, god, terrorist threat, etc). And is very important to belive in eternal life, because if there is no God waiting you after death, ¿how can you convience a society to kill most of their sons in a stupid war just for a piece of land, a gold's mine or a bunch of slaves?

I am far from heartless. Every country has its own agendas. I meant the first crusade counts as a religious war. The other 3 were like you say purely monetary in motivation. Your knowledge/ intelligence is only valid if you assume that intelligence is not learned but one is born with it, and that knowledge is gained through teaching. Your point was that the US starts wars. When in fact we just blindly join in the middle of them. Vietnam was going to be a war if the US was there or not same with Korea and most of the others in your list. I know the US moves into places that it shouldnt and i give you that, but it is not the primary goal of the US to screw over every other country that is less fortunte than us. We do have a problem with businesses controlling aspects of our government and i believe that it ruins all our nation stands for. I am truly sorry for what happened in your country. I am going to stop this pointless argument for both of us. Sorry if i came across as heartless. I was merely stating what i know.

Rasputin, you don't need to apolgize, it was a pleasure. I've learned new knowledge from you, I will try to use it with intelligence.
And please watch "Zeitgeist movie" and "The War on Democracy", you will find them very interesting.

"Your knowledge/ intelligence is only valid if you assume that intelligence is not learned but one is born with it, and that knowledge is gained through teaching."

Wrong. Knowledge is gained through learning stuff, and intelligence is a mixture of teachings and experience.

Teachings != Learnings

Of course, if you read "Child's psicology" (one of the easyest books of the great epistemologyst Jean Piaget) yuo will find that both intelligence and knowledge are constructions that you need to develope.

In the right way we can say "intelligence and thought"

Chavez will be taken care of. I doubt there will be war, but he's losing popularity and a genuine popular uprising or even an authentic coup might just take him out. Or he'll lose the elections in a few years. Or slip in the shower, I don't know.

But if he keeps letting Russia land bombers in the Western Hemisphere there will be trouble. The Monroe Doctrine still counts, even when the foreigners are invited by a "democratic" leader. I know that doesn't sound fair, considering the whole Georgia war was about Russia feeling the West was in it sphere of influence, but it's not supposed to be.

Basically, don't tread on me.

Please, don't get me started on the Monroe Doctrine...

It's only OK to opress them if they're close

No, not oppress. It's just that issues in the Americas should be settled by the people of the Americas, and the United States won't allow European powers, or China for that matter, to gain military influence and possibly incite hostility. Is that so crazy?

> Cuba is what happens when you snub your nose at the US. Iraq is
> what happens when you greet them at the door.
America isn't perfect but huge oversimplifications like this don't help anything

Yes it is. The Monroe Doctrine was a load of shit when it was first written, and I can't believe there's people advocating for it in the 21st Century.

I correct myself. I don't know weather there was any sense in the Monroe Doctrine when it was first written, or what Monroe intended to do with it.

I do know it was a load of shit during the '70s.

Invictus, please not again. We have enough of the "Big Monroe Corporation".
You need to understand: nobody wants to attack USA, Hiroshima is still hot. But you must be dumb if you don't noticed that USA attacks countries with oil. So, if you have a lot of oil and the USA activates the IV fleet, you have some reasons to be afraid.
Brazil founded last year a lot of oil, they are now in the OPEC. They bought a lot of hellicopters and other weapons. I am shure that all the people in Brazil is just waiting for carnival and they don't want to make war against nobody, but when you have a treasure somebody could try to stole it.

Xapi i wasnt advicating that statement just analyzing what he might have meant. And oil is a big motivator especially with the crisis at hand. Its insurance for the future.

Brazil is not in OPEC, Indonesia has actually suspended its membership, and Saudi Arabia even walked out of the last meeting because the suggested production cuts were so outrageous.

Perhaps you meant Venezuela when you said Brazil, and while they surely do not want to attack the United States directly Chavez has brought up an nineteenth century border dispute with Guyana over Guayana Esequiba and nearly went to war with Colombia just this year over the Colombian military killing terrorist leaders hiding in Ecuador. Now he's withdrawn the Venezuelan ambassador to the United States because his equally crazy leftist friend Evo Morales in Bolivia withdrew his. He's bought the lower classes in his country with bloated socialistic handouts, and now is positioning himself as the new Lefty Leader of Latin America. Basically a fat Che.

Chavez is being openly confrontational to the United States. Regardless of what you say, lots of people DO want to attack the United States. That's why he's getting so cozy to Iran and is contemplating recognizing as independent the little areas of Georgia stolen by Russia.

The Monroe Doctrine was designed to keep America safe by keeping Europe out of the newly independent nations of Latin America. Russian bombers in Venezuela are different from Russian missiles in Cuba, but the message is the same. A declared enemy of the United States is allowing another unfriendly nation to use its territory for military purposes. What the hell are we supposed to think about that?

Invictus, Brazil will be a part of the OPEC soon. Both Venezuela and Brazil have lots of oil, and they know that USA invades countries with oil. And t5hat’s a real fact, not the stupid propaganda you eat. And you must show respect with Evo Morales, the first indigenous president of Bolivia, elected and countersigned by Bolivians. But maybe you have no respect about nothing except the profit of US corporations.
The U.S. government has set out on a deliberate mission to carve Bolivia into separate pieces ("the Balkanization of Bolivia") and to lead that task the Bush administration sent in a man tailor-made for the job, the former Chief of U.S. Mission in Kosovo, U.S. Ambassador to Bolivia Phillip Goldberg (just take a look at Kosovo and you will understand which kind of assassin he is).
Obviously, this means genocide of indigenous. This is real, and it happens a few days ago, for example in Pando (a massacre of unarmed indigenous).
You talk about intentions of Chavez to attack other countries, but nobody is accusing Chavez except USA, his news networks and you. Please don’t be silly, there is no chance of a war between Venezuela and Guyana or Colombia, the only reason of the propaganda against Chavez is because US has not the same privileges to get Venezuela’s oil than yesterday. The rest is always the same trick: Venezuela is evil, Venezuela is in the evil axis, Chavez is crazy, etc, etc. This lie doesn’t work anymore, you abuse using it.
People in Venezuela don’t want to fight a war against “the big war industry” just to benefit some oil companies, you can be sure. They will lost the few things the can achieve and they will get no benefit making war. And we don’t swallow the lie of a messianic dictator, except if you are talking about Bush.
In the USA, situation is clearly not the same: your country is spreading a lot of war over the world, with mercenaries and sophisticated weapons. Can you sleep at night while your country is killing innocent people over the world?
And about your fucking Monroe bullshit, can you tell me how deep you put it in your ass during Falkland’s task force? So, don’t be hypocritical, we are poor and downtrodden but not stupid.
Now you have the possibility to accede to other information, the one that USA doesn’t broadcast to you.

That is true..the Monroe Doctrine was basically imperialism at its best. Europe stay out so the US can establish control. Warrior you must admit Chavez does have a crazy streak about him. At best he is mildly cranky but overall he is a bit creepy to me. And Bush at the moment is effectively useless as a President and come January hopefully with the election of Obama and finally getting the Republicans out of office that our foreign policy will change and the exploitation will stop.

Rasputin, some powerful groups are making all that they can to make you believe that Chavez is a menace. He can be bombastic, but he will not start a war against nobody. For example, the problem in Colombia is that “Narcos” are selling cocaine, The Colombian army is selling cocaine, the Colombian government is selling cocaine, the FARC is selling cocaine and the DEA is selling cocaine. Is one of the biggest business in the world, and the powers are in, you can be sure. The rest is hypocrisy.
Which country benefits with a war between Colombia and Venezuela? The ones who sells weapons? The ones who are willing to intervene, reaching a better position to his corporations? Obviously this will be the worst decision to all South America, especially Colombia and Venezuela. But maybe other countries are encouraging the conflict to retrieve the oil benefits they have before Chavez.
It’s not easy to convince poor people to die in a stupid war. In my own case, I think I will never use a gun, even if my country is suffering an invasion (obviously I’m talking in a hypothetical way). That’s because the invaders are always countries that manufacture weapons.

I believe Chavez, and many other leaders of the History of Latin America are not crazy. They are just Latin American. We do things differently here. We see and understand things differently, we speak differently, we care about different things.

That's why Chavez can say to the President of Spain exactly what he thinks about the Spanish King in a world summit (with the King present).

That's why Chavez can address his people almost every morning, live, in a TV show.

That's why Chavez can give speeches hours long, and say the things he says about US and it's relations with the rest of the world.

That's why Chavez can nationalize foreign companies, and no one in Venezuela thinks the world is going to end because of it.

He is one of us, there are millions like him on the street every day.

We are different, we have a different culture. And the Monroe Doctrine is the negation of those differences, and, an authorization for the US to impose their views of the world upon us.

Warrior i believe even if you say that you would never take up arms against an invader that you would depending of the circumstances. I think the same way, but if my family and friends were in danger i wouldnt hesitate to try and defend then. But honestly most countries manufacture weapons. The Czecks and the Russians. Do you hate them too? The russians invent the AK-47 the most widely used gun by terrorists the Czecks on the same side. And Russia and Czeck arent exactly the most wealthy nations on the list. I know Chavez would not start a war im just saying the guy is a tad quirky.

Sweens, first of all, I don’t hate anybody. Obviously I don’t like countries who develop weapons, and I don’t like countries who support coups in other nations, and I also don’t like countries who invades other pacific countries. I never blame on their citizens, I just know that there are big economic corporations who lives prosper by making war in other nations. Generally they don’t go to war, the just buy a big bunch of mercenaries and a lot of new weapons to do it clean and safe. And always the rest of the world pays the consequences.

About my hypothetical participation during an invasion, of course it’s hypothetical. I really don’t know how it could be. But I am not young, so I think I am a bit useless as a soldier.

Finally, maybe Chavez is quirky because he doesn’t let the US to do what they want?
If a quirky president justifies an invasion, be careful with Bush!

Oh i hate Bush...he is the worst thing that has happened to this country in a while. You do have a point tho. I just think that the US has other motives besides just going to war. We have been sending aid to africa, and by aid i mean food and such not the Somalia fiasco. And there is no way in hell we are going to get a return on that. I agree that the US has/is involved in questionable situations, but we also do some good in the world.

writing on the wall? no braille?

I feel fortunate to live in a country neighbouring the United States. My lifestyle is a reflection of that close proximity. As far as I'm concerned, the United States fight is our fight.

Oh you Canadians lol. Gotta love you guys =]

Mapleleaf: please, you can’t be so selfish. You think that your good lifestyle justifies war and invasion? Real people die every day during war, the “good lifestyle” of entire nations is smashed, but you support invasions just because you live a pretty life? You are disagreeable.