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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Georgy24211 (100 D)
19 Nov 16 UTC
Situation on the board
Couldn't find an answer anywhere...
How do I plot the situation? Is it done automatically or do I need a mapper app or something like that?
7 replies
Open
qwerbnot (0 DX)
16 Nov 16 UTC
Churchie
What is your opinion of Churchie? If you know what it is, that is.
7 replies
Open
Fluminator (1500 D)
20 Nov 16 UTC
Russia
Is Russia that bad of a country?
So they're in Syria. So they took Crimea. So they attacked Georgia.
Is that bad enough to start a new cold war over?
27 replies
Open
ND (879 D)
19 Nov 16 UTC
Trump Cup
Who will be joining me in getting a cup of coffee from Starbucks under Mr. Trump's name to show solidarity with the movement?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/living/trump-cup-starbucks/index.html
45 replies
Open
Halls of Mandos (1019 D)
20 Nov 16 UTC
Is there a way to access old PMs?
Thanks.
3 replies
Open
Randomizer (722 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Trump folds
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-18/trump-university-settles-fraud-claims-for-25-million

Trump settles rather than become the first president to go to trial. His Fraud U finally after years of delay tactics agrees to pay in New York.
19 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (1100 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+9)
Screw the World Petition
Please +1 this is you really don't mind one way or the other about the world map :-)
10 replies
Open
brainbomb (295 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
Barbarian thread
I find Barbarians to be disgusting and violent. Share your experience with savage barbarians here.
42 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
15 Nov 16 UTC
(+24)
Save The World! Petition
Please +1 this post and/or reply if you don't want to see the World Map removed from the site.
40 replies
Open
Condescension (10 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
How to stop being garbage?
I've basically noticed that whether or not I get 2v1'd in 1901 or '02 basically comes down to a crapshoot. I find it's very difficult to get conversations and discussion rolling, especially in lower-bet games. Anyone got tips?
Kakarroto (128 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
Play more. With more games you get more experience.

"A master of a specific thing failed more often at it than a student even tried it."

So play more and try to find your own way, practice the heck out of this game.
Yoyoyozo (95 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
Be very polite. Make friends on opposite sides of the board so that if you do get 2v1d your buddy on the opposite side of the map can keep one of the guys busy for you. Or at least use diplomatic pressure to get them off your back.
TrPrado (461 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+5)
Don't be so condescending.
Yoyoyozo (95 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
For someone who represents condescension, you sure are self-depreciating.
Condescension (10 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
^ Only possible in Anon games. I have a reputation to uphold.
Condescension (10 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
I know the general strategic goals of diplomacy and who I should be targeting. What I mostly have a problem with is that conversations generally go like this:

"Hi I'm France I'm probably going to attack England but maybe Germany idk let me know if you hear anything about Italy kk ttyl"

"ok cool hi"

and then nothing until there's some specific thing that one of us needs. On the rare occasion that we actually get a conversation going, it's always very useful, but it's tough talking about shit when very little has happened.
ghug (5068 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Share information. Ask them to share information. Ask them about their plans. Tell them about your plans. Discuss mutual neighbors: their press, their actions, when and how you'd like to gut them. If someone's just responding "ok cool hi" they're absolutely useless and you should be doing everything in your power to ensure that they're your best friend and they're doing well.
Yoyoyozo (95 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Well there's your issue lol. Your press is garbage
Condescension (10 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
^ I am aware of that. Trying to figure out how to not have it be garbage.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Make 11 more accounts and play world games.
Yoyoyozo (95 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
I will attempt to help you without breaking anon in all of my current games. I'll PM you an example
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Low point random games are generally poor competition and participation. The best way to increase your skills quickly is by playing with quality players and seeing how they craft press, how they see the board and approach strategy.

As for press, the more the merrier. But avoid double talk and false promises as best you can. Be vague before you lie with no immediate benefit. The best way to gain an ally is to identify a common interest and propose a plan to see you both find success.

To improve your tactical skills I recommend playing lots of gunboat. You will be able to learn cuts/defensive moves, identify the key non-SC territories on the board, and most importantly learn where the various stalemate positions are.
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
There used to be a PDF of a high quality game that occurred where all press was then gathered and put into a PDF so that others could read each players press and what they were seeing and saying. I think it was called the full disclosure game or something like that. When I first started someone sent me a copy of this PDF and I read through the whole thing, it was very helpful in learning how to interact/influence at a high level.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
tinyurl.com/webdipEOG
OB_Gyn_Kenobi (888 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
I was in a full disclosure game just over a year ago. It was a really good quality game press-wise IMO. I have the chat logs still. They're long and not suitable for cut and paste. They are anonymous and I think I could share them without an ethical breach of any kind.
President Eden (2750 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
From what you've said, it sounds to me the biggest weakness you might have is just not having a clear plan from the outset. It's true that if everybody is playing a wait-and-see game, press is going to look really useless. Someone has to make the first move to start pushing the board state in their direction.

Luckily the neutral centers exist to give each player a clear idea of what they're supposed to be doing with their plan. They give you a very obvious incentive to expand in a particular direction, but they're all positioned so that multiple people have that same incentive. That brings you into contact with other players over very real, concrete items of interest, which invites the kind of conversation where people commit to doing very specific things. If they follow through with their commitment then you have a basis of trust with which to discuss more involved plans. If they renege on something simple early, then you have a target for further expansion -- a target which you can present to the other players and once again have specific, committal conversations. One thing you'll notice as you start to do this: people who reciprocate your specifics are people willing to commit to working with you, people who stay vague are leaving the option of attacking you on the table. This is true because the vast majority of players here lack either the balls or strategic vision to lie to your face about commitments to specific moves. They would rather not lock in to a move which isn't of their own design because they can't see how they can use that move against you later, and they are fearful of the repercussions of directly reneging on a specific move commitment, so they will be vague and make promises of alliance and support without disclosing anything that matters.

As an example, suppose you are France. Obviously you have two Iberian neutrals that are not remotely reasonable for anyone to contest in the opening stages of the game. The only player who can threaten them realistically is Italy, but Italy already has several more profitable avenues for expansion. So you are generally safe, as France, by proposing DMZs in North Africa, Western Mediterranean, Gulf of Lyon, and Piedmont. If you wanted to go further, it's probably even plausible to request a soft-DMZ in Tyrrhenian Sea (as in, Italy can move there without it being considered a breach of trust and act of aggression, if they talk to you in advance about how and why they're doing it), though you probably won't need to do all that. The line of DMZs near your provinces usually gives you enough time if they do break their promise to turn around and attack them. If Italy won't commit to those DMZs, it's very obvious they're going to attack you, and if they do commit and break them, it's also very obvious they're going to attack you. If either of those are the case, then you already know to work England very hard in your diplomatic press and get ready to build F Marseilles. This in turn informs your diplomacy with Germany (if you're allying with England to pacify them, it's unlikely you can also be serious allies with Germany; they both have to expand somewhere and it's hard for them to expand in a direction besides you that doesn't bring them into eventual conflict), Russia (you probably want a strong Russia, as regardless of how England is pacified, you're going to need Russia to be relevant in the north for when you do turn your attentions there), Austria and Turkey (you are very unlikely to break Italy unassisted, but you have a fine line to walk to make sure they aren't the major profiteers from your efforts).

Once you've established a DMZ with, or made an enemy of, Italy, it's time to look at other neutrals. Belgium is the only other realistic one in your range, but England and Germany want it as well. You are in the least realistic position to force it; your free centers in Iberia will pull two units away from Belgium, which means you'll only have one unit bordering Belgium at best, while England and Germany can both have two on the job if they so desire. So any capture of Belgium in 1901 is going to come due to someone else's favor. On the flip side, if you're not as worried about getting Belgium in 1901, England and Germany can't force it against each other. As noted... any capture of Belgium (including theirs) is going to come due to the favor of someone else (perhaps you). You can leverage your unit bordering Belgium as a bargaining tool: maybe you want to ally with Germany against England, and you say that you'll support him into Belgium (likely giving him three builds in 1901) if he promises to build fleets in Berlin and Kiel (limiting his diplomatic options -- he's basically forced to fight England and will be competing with Russia in Scandinavia as well, which means he can't realistically fight you).

I also like to start with a general plan in mind for which centers I'm going to take to get to 18. Using France again as the example, France has a couple of options for 18, but they basically always involve England. All else being equal I'll be looking to attack England with German help and Italian noninterference. France usually has to take down one of Germany or Italy after that, but not necessarily both. This is good because it means that, as long as you take care of business against England, you can afford to let the board settle itself a bit in the East and make your play for 18 based on who is diplomatically isolated or vulnerable. You generally won't need Russian centers, but you can win without Italy if you advance into Scandinavia and break out into central Europe, and you don't have to get beyond Berlin/Munich/St. Petersburg if you're able to take Tunisia. But everything involves taking out England: you have to go really far out of your way into the Mediterranean to avoid taking centers to which your presumed English ally would have rightful claim, and all the while their home supply centers and the sea zones in the Atlantic are tailor made for England to blow up your position on a moment's notice. So I would try to take out England first by default as France, and go from there.

It's important to remember that you *have* to make sure your strategic plans line up with diplomatic realities though. It's all well and good to recognize England as a much greater long-term danger to you than France, but what if England has been very prompt, responsive and specific in their press, making concrete agreements and all, while Germany has been doing some of the vague noncommittal talk I warned about earlier? You'll be forced to play the players instead of playing the countries, which sucks a bit, but it's also part of what makes the game stay fresh -- not every French game is a linear sea invasion of England followed by opportunistic pushes to 18. If you hadn't had such a specific strategic vision for the game from the jump, though, you might not have discovered that Germany was a bad choice of an ally in time to make decisions with that knowledge. Even if you have to abandon your script and change course completely, at least you do it based on real events happening within the game.
ghug (5068 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+3)
http://tinyurl.com/wDFullDisclosure
OB_Gyn_Kenobi (888 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
One difference between my FD game and the one ghug posted was that the players in the one I was in didn't agree to FD until the game was complete. Thus, the press wasn't sent with the foreknowledge that it would get published.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
18 Nov 16 UTC
My biggest advice related to this (and to any phase of the game is to be talkative and likeable). People want to ally themselves with people that the enjoy talking to. Have unique ideas, talk a lot, and response to aggression without getting overly defensive in your language. People invest a lot of time into this game, and if they are going to play a game that lasts several months, they want to have relationships with players that they enjoy speaking with. Even in high wager games with extremely competitive players I find this to be true. Its simply more fun to play with someone who is likeable, and has unique thoughts about the board.

One obstacle that I agree is sort of a crapshoot is when games start, and when people are online. It has always been my biggest gripe about playing in a non-live setting. If I join a game and it starts at 1am and I don't log on until 9am, players have had essentially 8 hours to scheme without me. A great deal of chemistry can be built up and plans set while I'm in bed sleeping. It creates a hole that is sometimes difficult to climb out of.
ghug (5068 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Another difference between my game and OB's is that his had OB in it. :P

We were going to do that with the second Peanut Gallery game too, which would be pretty interesting.
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Yes +1 @ghug - somebody took a lot of time to put that together so you can follow in real time. Excellent read.
ghug (5068 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Man, I sent a lot less press back then.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Also, before you hit that send button, reread the message you are sending from the shoes of the recipient. How would you receive that message if you received it in their spot - then tweak accordingly.
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Is it better to ally with a good player or a rope-a-dope?
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
18 Nov 16 UTC
I would say rope-a-dope but I can see both sides of the argument
President Eden (2750 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Good player if you ask me. Better someone who reliably acts in their self-interest than someone who doesn't, overall -- if things are going well for you then you don't need the help from the bad player being duped, if things are going poorly then the last thing you need is a bad player making a strategically ill-advised backstab.

Of course acting like we know from the start who's good and who's bad is pretty foolish. I've seen a ton of people with what would be considered 'good' stats (~8-9% win rate, >45% draw rate, 25-% eliminations) and pass as 'good' make some pretty terrible decisions, and some new players whose small track record belies their skill. You can really only try to evaluate skill by press that you've received in the game, and it's hard to make that evaluation before you have to make some real decisions.
ssorenn (0 DX)
18 Nov 16 UTC
i hate it when PE is right
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
I would agree PE, but in that same vein I would say you should always play the players not the countries.
Tom Bombadil (4023 D(G))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Agreed. Plus until gunboat is separated from regular it's even harder to tell who the "good" players are just from the stats. But I'd still rather have the rope a dope players even if they are unreliable because I think it has a greater chance of giving you an opportunity for a solo. Good players tend to leave better defensive play in genera. Rope a dope ally to me helps you potentially win instead of draw (but you also probably have a higher chance of shit hitting the fan)
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
18 Nov 16 UTC
Yeah, most games are anon anyways so I wouldn't judge a good player off their stats. But I would judge it off their press and vision for the game.

But I agree, I wish the stats could be bifurcated to cut out gunboat and other random variants and live games played.
I think we agree Lee, my recommendation is to start the game by playing the countries so you have a clear plan for how things are going to play out. You work to run this plan in your diplomacy with all the other countries. Then you adjust or even abandon the plan based on how people react to it. You start off playing countries because that's what you would do if all else were equal with players, but then you let your press with other players decide to what extent (if any) you stick to that plan.

I can understand wanting to keep the weaker players around, but I think the more experienced ones are actually not substantially more difficult to beat. In fact, if the weaker players aren't so weak that they don't understand the full extent of their repertoire of moves, I would rather play the more experienced ones. Most of them tend to be very conservative and predictable (in the bad way this time, for them anyway) and thus easier to outplay than the so-called weaker players, who might try something out-of-the-box that surprises you and catches you out of position.
Yigg (2454 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
All of this is good, and I could echo much of what's already been said. But to add my own thoughts on how to "stop being garbage" for your opening; have a plan. Most of the time, initial press is wishy-washy "hi, how are ya, let's be friendly and exchange info." While that's fine, I'm far more likely to respond to someone who presents a bold plan of action. But it's got to be beyond just a "hey, let's attack so-and-so." Lay out some broad strategy with a few specific tactics. Someone willing to lay their cards on the table to you is opening with a measure of willingness to trust and be trusted. Sure, they risk you spilling the plan to others, but the payoff can be pretty impressive.
brainbomb (295 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Have you tried playing on LSD
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
18 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Don't be stupid enough to look at a bright computer screen while you're on acid.
uclabb (589 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
The best advice I got when I was starting was in spring 1801 try to figure out what move everyone is going to make in spring 1901. I think this helps you keep talking and figuring out what information you actually want to know to understand how the game is going to go.

The other thing I would say is that diplomacy is all about framing the game in the light that you want. You want to tilt the game so it's easy for everyone to work with you and hard to work against you. By far the most important thing here is building relationships. I good starting question is just "how do you like to play?"
brainbomb (295 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
1801...
Kakarroto (128 D)
18 Nov 16 UTC
yeah, didn't you know? there are 200 phases of negotiations before the first move is made, brain.
ghug (5068 D(B))
19 Nov 16 UTC
I always come on webDip for the comedown. The intricate little letters are the last thing to stop moving, and y'all are simple enough that I can still understand what's going on.
ghug (5068 D(B))
19 Nov 16 UTC
Don't try to write press though. That's a recipe for disaster.


39 replies
Yoyoyozo (95 D)
14 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Yoyo is a Mod FP Game
Hey guys, as you know, I've recently become a mod. I want to celebrate with a FP game with specifics as follows:
74 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Nov 16 UTC
(+14)
Thankamod
Had a couple of interactions with mods recently, most recently with peterwiggins. Response time was fast and professional.

Thank-a-mod today for the great work they do to keep this site running
smoothly.
19 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
17 Nov 16 UTC
Cracked explains...
... the NRA. Who knew Cracked was doing education?
https://youtu.be/rYGOg1xElBc

Tl;dr(or watch) the NRA represents gun manufacturers' interests, not gun owners.
8 replies
Open
cb6000 (100 D(S))
17 Nov 16 UTC
Funny business or just my usual paranoia?
I've noticed a trend in gunboat games....when entering orders -- especially during '01 -- a given great power will click SAVE instead of READY. More often than not, an adjacent great power will do the same. Amazingly, these powers don't move on each other. While it may be frowned upon, is this a way of signalling a wish for non-aggression/cooperation? ...and if it's not...why do it?

...and yes the walls talk to me...sometimes in harsh tones.
8 replies
Open
pRick Grimes (0 DX)
15 Nov 16 UTC
World game for the players ;)
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=185542
1 reply
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
13 Oct 16 UTC
(+12)
Official query: new 1v1 variants and more
Details below.
179 replies
Open
Condescension (10 D)
16 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Dick Stuck
Hey guys,

I took some of the advice from the thread a while back , and it went pretty OK at first but now, dick stuck. How do I get my penis out again? Or do I just need to start getting used to a life with Stuck Dick?
22 replies
Open
peterwiggin (15158 D)
15 Nov 16 UTC
(+4)
Mod Team Announcement
VashtaNeurotic has agreed to step down from the mod team. Please thank him for his service.

peterwiggin
webDiplomacy admin
52 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Nov 16 UTC
Favorite Thanksgiving Treat
Yeah yeah...pumpkin pie. Yeah, yea, I'm posting an exclusively American Holiday...so if you have a holiday in the same time frame, chime in.

What's your favorite Thanksgiving Treat (meats, sweets anything...) Recipes also welcome!
32 replies
Open
potatoinmymouth (951 D)
15 Nov 16 UTC
The worst misorders of all time
What is the worst you've seen?
19 replies
Open
brainbomb (295 D)
17 Oct 16 UTC
Civilization 6
Release on Oct. 21, will this site become a silent graveyard? Anyone else planning on playing the hell out of this?
76 replies
Open
stranger (575 D)
16 Nov 16 UTC
newbies don't get draw size scoring apparently
No newbies here, just good gunboaters plzz
1 reply
Open
brainbomb (295 D)
16 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
My cat just pee'd on my laundry
Thanks Trumpbama
41 replies
Open
Commander Thomas (395 D)
16 Nov 16 UTC
Communication Block and Mute Player Inquiry.
Hey I am wondering if muting a player in a game can carry over into actual private messages and forum post messages? I received a private message for actual in game conversations where I am not even a player in the game.

Can people be muted/have blocked communications out of actual diplomacy games? Does anyone know if this is possible?
4 replies
Open
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
14 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Fluminator wants quotes for his profile
http://i.imgur.com/llqbgT7.png

You know what to do. Don't let him down in his time of need, webDip forum!
42 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Nov 16 UTC
Mod to swap a player
Fuck have a game we just started - password by invite and some schmuck in gonna NMR. Have a replacement lined up - can a mod kick the nmr'er out?
9 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
16 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
ACA Premium Reimbursement
Today I was refunded a decent amount of last year's insurance premium through my company because our insurer didn't spend enough of their income from premiums on claims. What is going on here that some people are seeing their premiums double while some insurers literally don't have enough claims. Is it just happenstance that this provider only has healthy people? A civil, informed discussion would be appreciated, if at all possible.
9 replies
Open
qwerbnot (0 DX)
14 Nov 16 UTC
Let's change the subject
Since there's so much rage about the American political situation, I thought I'd change it up a bit. Who do you think the next Australian PM will be?
21 replies
Open
pRick Grimes (0 DX)
15 Nov 16 UTC
Last time on AMC's the wanking dead
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=185532
5 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (95 D)
11 Nov 16 UTC
(+4)
Open Letter to Fellow Americans
.
71 replies
Open
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