I would like it to be total disclosure. I didn't know that was a thing on WebDip, so I suggested that those who wanted to share could copy-paste into a chat and I would compile it. Is there a way to do this built-in without the effort? If people copy-paste it into a text file, I can redact the messages of any players that would like their messages redacted so that there is no privacy issue.

You have to have every player copy and past every page of their messages tab into a word-like doc, have it sent to one person, and that one person parse it to a reduced set. It's non trivial work. The messaging system here is still very primitive unfortunately.

I can write a script to do this very easily. I asked everyone to send a text file as an attachment to [email protected] (an email address I set up for this), and I will compile it. The only work involved from everyone else will be copy-pasting. If anyone wants messages involving them redacted, either send me an email or a PM and I'll redact yours before sending it out to the group. I already have 2 logs and am waiting on the 4 others.

I was still pulling for Russia from afar :(

I preemptively apologize to...everyone.

I forgive you

Oh awesome, we haven't had full disclosure in forever.

http://tinyurl.com/webDipFD is the one I was in before.

Ghug, do you know how that document was made? I have the press from a full-disclosure game I played in back in 2012, but we never got around to publishing the press because I didn't know how to format it nicely.

By the way, mattsh, do you know Javascript? I have some ideas how to publish the press as a nice java applet that's a lot more user-friendly than one big text document.

Tru just had us send all our press to him and he spent a bunch of time formatting it.

That was also probably before the World Cup game broke everything and press was split over many pages. It was easier to go through big press games before the fix was made.

Curious: do the mods have the ability to pull messages from the logs of a game en-masse? That would make it easier to do this in the future.

My plan is to collect the messages and just share them within the players of the game. I won't publish it publicly unless all of the players agree unanimously.

@basvanopheusden - I don't know JavaScript (I'm a backend dev). I was going to parse everything into a very simple database and then write out very simple HTML files with text coloring and some basic formatting. It will be more readable than the PDF you linked to, and include dates from the game. I will also give different views of the game: chronological with conversations interleaved, full conversation history sorted by player-pair, etc. If you have a Java or JavaScript applet you want to build, I'd be happy to use that, but I think this will be the 80/20 solution that works best for now.

Matt: if you want to write a program that works on the actual database, I can run it for you (once I've read the source, of course). It would be very useful to have a tool for printing out games to make it easier for people to do full disclosure games. Bonus points if you can produce the pdf.

I can work with you to get you the format of the messages in the database if you need.

~webDip dev team lead

Sounds similar to what I was thinking. My ideal scheme would be: all press chronologically ordered, with board images for every move, and all press appropriately colored. Moreover (and this is the part I have no idea how to do), somewhere on the page you'd have 7 checkboxes, one for each country. When you check/uncheck a country, you filter their messages from the log. So you can look at pairwise conversations, or all 7 players talking, or anything in between.

@basvanopheusden let's collaborate on this! I was going to make something fairly bare-bones. It sounds like you and I could work together -- I could produce the back-end code and you can make a useful front-end. How does that sound?

@A_Tin_Can: I was planning to make a standalone tool in Python to spit out crappy old-school HTML. Integrating with the WebDip server code would require a large learning curve to familiarize myself with the codebase (and PHP) and front-end dev. Do you have any objections to this being a separate command-line tool (probably written in Python), or would it be monumentally more useful if there was a Webdip interface and integration? I want to be careful of taking on too much because I was planning to dedicate 1-2 hours to this. I could triple that for something generally useful, but don't have time right now to spend days on it.

I also think if we're going to do this, we should start with something very simple (i.e., no checkboxes) and just iterate. I can create a github project/fork for this purpose.

@matt, I don't want to speak for ATC, but I think he meant more that you could create a standalone tool that interfaces with the database (which already contains the message) and then he could run it for you, rather than you having to recompile all the messages into a database before running your script.

^ghug has my intent correct. Providing a tool like this has the advantage that it saves you time (since you don't have to worry about recompiling the messages), and it would give us a useful tool to produce full disclosure games in the future.

A standalone tool would be fine. I don't anticipate it being run more than 1-2 times a year anyway. I don't particularly mind what it's written in, as long as I can read the source (and I'll probably run it on a server other than the live one anyway, for safety).

It would be cool to add a tool like this to the main webdip distribution, but I'm reluctant to do that if it's not in PHP (since currently, webdip is only written in PHP, HTML and JavaScript). As long as you don't care about that, it doesn't need to be in PHP :)

Note that when reading game press, you're often interested in press from the perspective of a particular player (ie, all press that was received by England). Extending bas' checkboxes to 14, where each country has "press sent by" and "press received by" might cover all cases, but I haven't thought about it very much.

@ATC @ghug, thanks for the clarification. That was what I was hoping you meant. Shall we keep this discussion here or start an email thread?
I created a GitHub project (https://github.com/straxhaber/webDiplomacy-fullDisclosure). I presume this is the SQL query? https://github.com/kestasjk/webDiplomacy/blob/master/board/info/messages.php

I think that query just tells you how many there are, but if you vary what it's selecting then yes, it will work.

Can you send an email to [email protected]? Bas, if you PM me or Matt your email address, we'll go from there.

"toCountryID = 0"

FYI, Country 0 is global chat.

I'll be the whiner and say, "this is pretty laborious," copying and pasting 63 pages worth. It's not really, but as I juggle life things, it is going slowly.

If we can write a script that generates the document automatically from the database, you might not need to do all the laborious copy-pasting.

It does seem a bit odd to have to take data in a computer and put it back into the computer. Just sayin'.

Sorry I left you such a hefty pile, HB

Oh no. Don't apologize. I am enjoying reading it all.

Are we going to use this thread for EoGs? Or are we considering commentary on top of full disclosure superfluous?

I would like to wait for the press transcripts to come out then add commentary to it.

I think it would be interesting to hear the difference between what people think now vs. when they see the messages. (I've avoided looking at the messages so far)

Also @diplomat554, don't forget to send your logs!

Bump. Are the transcripts coming any time soon, guys?

Waiting on Espl (Italy) and jmspool (Turkey).

Any movement on this? At what point can we just move ahead with the countries that have already participated?

@mattsh: Any progress with the script? Then I can just get the press from the database for you.

@mattsh: There is interest in perhaps doing this press script for another game that was just completed. Can we solicit your help with it?

We are just waiting on Italy and Turkey. If they don't get back to us in a few days, I'll just send out the result to the rest of us. Please don't share this script with anyone: it is only for those that were a part of this game and contributed.

Hamilton Brian: free to have them send their scripts to [email protected] with the subject line "[GameID] - CountryName - PlayerName". It won't take me much work to compile another game once I've finished writing the script.

I've been traveling in Russia the last few weeks, so I haven't had time to put everything together yet. I'll be back in about a week.

Total disclosure seems a bit like asking the winning poker hand to show his card after everyone else has folded. I am not in this game, but I am against the idea in principal.

That's why it's opt-in...

I don't disagree though really. Once several people express interest there's only so much you can do to protect the integrity of your messages, particularly if the compiler is not impartial, since he will have access to a number of your messages anyway. I didn't care enough to fight it, especially as I am curious myself, but in general I don't think full disclosure should happen without prior agreement.

And it should not happen at all unless all 7 agree.

I already asked in the beginning if anyone objected enough to veto it. If any single player and said they definitely didn't want full-disclosure, I would've offered them the choice of either nixing it entirely or having me strike their messages (in which case only I would see them). None of the players objected besides diplomat who also said go for it. I agree with VirtualBob that any player should be able to veto Full-Disclosure unless it was agreed upon prior to the game.

Bump