OK, fine, that's true, but the fact that it was majorly douchey and that neither Hector nor Patroclus were actually in charge of their own fates in that fight stands.

And krellin has run away like he always does.

Thanks krellin. Man up.

In fairness, krellin lives in EST, where it's after midnight now, and has a family.

Speaking of which, Troy was a kinda blah movie. Great sets and costumes, great potential, but just kinda blah.

Semck, he's still online/

dipplayer, It's because they totally diverged from the plot of the poem and tried to make it something it wasn't. /grumpyclassicalliteraturenerd

ghug - actually I have been doing OTHER THINGS....some of us have better things to do than troll all night like you.

Further, sometimes people actually <gasp!> leave their computers on, thus *appearing* to be logged on even though they may even be out of the house! <gasp!>

As for your Illiad example...FAIL. Pathetic. Please tell me which character there would be considered a "hero" who did not willfully face some eminent dangeror personal risk?

You - naively, or stupidly, I'm nor sure which - also make the retarded assumption that simply because someone is a character in an ancient writing that they are a "hero". Some character are just characters...

I'm sorry that you have such a poor education that you fail to even comprehend basic definitions of literary terms. Then again, it is not surprise, as I have witnessed you fail to grasp the basics of a *great deal* of what goes on in the world around you...

With that, I'm going to bed --- and yes, I"m leaving my computer logged on just to fuck with you, dumbass.

*farts in thread*

*winks at krellin*

Ghug, I hear ya.

"Please tell me which character there would be considered a "hero" who did not willfully face some eminent dangeror personal risk? "

They all faced great danger, and I don't see where I claimed that was not a part of heroism. Forrest Gump faced plenty of danger as well.

"You... make the retarded assumption that simply because someone is a character in an ancient writing that they are a 'hero'"

See, you walked right into this one. It's rather quite sad. Not only is it stupid for you to reject the idea that any of the major players in the Trojan War, but I also picked the Illiad specifically because it is simply irrefutable. The word "ἥρως" or "heros" originally meant a person who fought in the Trojan War, and later came to mean any dead person, usually mortal but associated in some way with the supernatural, who was subject to cult worship. As you originally challenged me to "tell [you] how many heroes of <choose your culture>" were similar to Forrest Gump, you literally have no argument in claiming that these characters were not heroes.

Furthermore, you just completely ignored all of the points that I actually did make, and seem to have completely forgotten your original definition, so I'm sorry you don't understand, but given our past interactions, I suspect you don't actually care and are just looking to waste my time. This conversation is considered resolved.

Oh, have a source. I have actual books on the subject (hence my knowledge's being superior to yours), but as you hat educated people anyway, I though Wikipedia would do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_hero_cult