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josunice (3702

)
07 Feb 13 UTC

Double Agent Game - Influence Opponent Moves

Join a game where you can direct opponent moves (rules below)

josunice (3702 )
07 Feb 13 UTC

For each 48 hour turn, players have the first 24 hours to submit by private message to each nation up to 2 suggested orders. When logged in with anything less than 24 hours remaining, each nation must place a suggested order for any unit for which there are at least two votes. If there is a tie, you can choose between the tied orders (e.g. if you are Austria and one opponent suggests Tri-Tyr and another suggests Tri-Gal, you must choose one of those moves and no other). If there are only one or no votes on a unit, you are free to move it as you please. During your next opportunity following the end of the turn, a public message should be posted with the votes cast to you privately. Private and Personal messages are to be used only for the private votes and the public disclosure. Your votes will serve well to show if you are an ally or enemy.

Assisting your allies will be as important as sabotaging your enemies. Up for a try at this?

hecks (164 )
07 Feb 13 UTC

Woah... this sounds convoluted. But I'd be game at low stakes.

Draugnar (0 )
07 Feb 13 UTC

How do you verify that everyone is being honest in their orders?

josunice (3702 )
07 Feb 13 UTC

Through the disclosure in the following year public board, and in that there is nothing to gain by trying to game the format. We will play for low stakes, and see how it goes.

Just need 7 to give it a twirl.

josunice
hecks
Draugnar?

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Other takers?

Draugnar (0 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Unless more detail about verifying the orders are followed and punishment if they aren't I have to pass.

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

I am open to suggestions. Though this is diplomacy, I actually think the honor system would work. Alternatively someone could collect the moves and distribute, but I would be inclined to try self regulated first. What do you think?

TheMinisterOfWar (553 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Inspired by Payola Diplomacy methinks? Cool concept.

Maniac (189 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Messages can only be used for votes and disclosure? So I couldn't try to get everyone to suggest England open with the Yorkshire pudding?

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Full public press would be an interesting round 2. So are you guys up for this?
1. josunice
2. hecks
3. Draugnar ??
4. MinisterOfWar ??
5. Maniac ??

y2kjbk (4846 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

You had me at Double Agent. I'm in.

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Maybe's you in? Couple more spots open:
1. josunice
2. hecks
3. y2kjbk
4. Draugnar ??
5. MinisterOfWar ??
6. Maniac ??

Maniac (189 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Yes I'll give it a try.

The problem I have is if I message first to say Eng Liv to Clyde, eng will could then vote my Turk army to move to Syria. Even if he knows my vote has been outvoted by others. This could lead to disadvantage to those who happen to be posting first because of our time zone. Diplomacy is about information sometimes and those with more info have a bigger advantage.

y2kjbk (4846 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

We just need to agree on the rules, bet 5, and roll with it. If someone ends up at a disadvantage, big deal, it's for fun anyway.

2ndWhiteLine (2611 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

What happens when the game gets down to two or three people?

Maniac (189 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

I'm guessing defeated players can still vote. If so it may be important to ensure players realise they need to play to the end.

y2kjbk (4846 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

So are we all in agreement that this is impossible to solo?

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

It is best for everyone to continue to vote through the game. The solo is still possible if the eliminated players continue to shape events. We have time to cross that bridge. We can see how it goes. Remember, it requires two votes to force a move, so a random vote is likely to not be picked up.

@ Maniac - time zones should not matter, since the first 24 hour is a hold period to allow everyone an opportunity to get in a vote before placing orders during the second 24 hour. Also, no votes for retreats and builds, of course...

1. josunice
2. hecks
3. y2kjbk
4. Maniac
5. Draugnar ??
6. MinisterOfWar ??
7. 2ndWhiteLine ??

Maniac (189 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Yeah good point about needing two votes to force a move. If you are down to three the other two players need to vote the same move without discussion otherwise you get to choose. It's worth seeing how far we get with this. Just a game for fun I think.

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

yeah - bet of @5 is fine to give it a try... on the voting, I was thinking there does not need to be two votes for the same MOVE, but two votes on the same UNIT, in which case you can choose between the two moves if there is a tie. I prefer not to further restrict this to require two votes for the same exact move, so there is more compulsion, albiet it with chose.

Note, a compelled move to support a certain other move only forces the voted move, not the related move. For example, if you are compelled to place the move Rum sup Bul to Ser, you are not also compelled to place Bul to Ser if you do not wish to.

I will establish a game and start sending out the password to the confirmed. Anon, 48 hour, @5.

Draugnar (0 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

I still have a problem with not establishing a punishment up front for violations. The mods wpild have to decide if someone broke the rules what the penalty would be and they have been a bit heavy handed in the past for my taste on that. If you lock it in that the person is docked say 25% of theory ppints and bounced from the game, we know what to expect.

As far as press and voting, private press for negotiations amd votes in public press prefixed with something like 'VOTE - German Units:' so the votes could be tallied and then say all voting ends 12 hours before the turn so we all have time to login, tally the votes for our nation for that phase, and issue the appropriate orders.

Draugnar (0 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Eliminated player votes is a bad idea as they could get together to give the guy who didn't screw them the solo. You don't see the eliminated players votimg at every tribal council in survivor after all.

Draugnar (0 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

And I don't play games or code software or visit foreign countries with the idea of "we will worry about the rules/specs/laws when we need to." That is a disaster waiting to happen.

Draugnar (0 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

One more question, do we also get to vote for our own moves?

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Thanks, Draugnar for helping to flesh some of this out. I prefer nations having the opportunity to continue to engage after being eliminated. Let's try it and see how it goes. No voting on your own units - though you do ignore the single vote, and break the tie of other votes.

If there is apparent cheating that needs to be investigated is a @35 pot game and there is definitive proof, which would require Mod time better spent elsewhere (i.e. I would be reluctant to ask them), I would be satisfied with public humiliation. Electronic flogging is punishment enough...

As for voting, I would like your private votes to be the only form of communication, which should express how you feel. Public voting provides too many timing issues -- but maybe we can switch up for the 2nd go....

I will reiterate rules in the opening of Public Press and field clarifications by PM during the game.

Are you out, then Draugnar, or open to see how it goes?

Draugnar (0 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Clarfified well enough for me to say "I'm in!"

Draugnar (0 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

What about retreats anf builds. Those voted on too?

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

No votes on retreat or build phases. Hopefully that will keep those to readying much quicker....

Maniac (189 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Can someone take charge of phases so that after 24hrs no more voting is allowed and on next log on players can then ready their orders. Otherwise we will be acting for a country to vote or entering prelim orders and purposely not signing back on to see late votes.

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

Players should not save moves during the first 24 hours, and only private messages received in the first 24 hours need be considered. This makes the game, though technically a 48 hour phase, a 24 hour phase since you will have 24 hours to submit votes, than a 24 hour period to tally your votes and place your orders. I'd like to try to keep this pilot low maintenance, as there will be plenty of moving parts as is.

Looking forward to it!

josunice (3702 )
08 Feb 13 UTC

TWO MORE SPOTS!

1. josunice
2. hecks
3. y2kjbk
4. Maniac
5. Draugnar

maybe:
MinisterOfWar
2ndWhiteLine

josunice (3702 )
09 Feb 13 UTC

Two more spots...

josunice (3702 )
09 Feb 13 UTC

Bump? Two more spots...

josunice (3702 )
10 Feb 13 UTC

Two spots left. Any takers. LC's tourney is underway, but just two seats left to fill...

Maniac (189 )
10 Feb 13 UTC

Bump - still looking for 2 more.

steephie22 (182 )
11 Feb 13 UTC

I'll give it a try if you'll have me.

Maniac (189 )
12 Feb 13 UTC

bump

josunice (3702 )
12 Feb 13 UTC

Guys. I'm going to table this for now as Lando's tourney and the Masters is underway. I'll revive it later. When things are quieter around here.

Tagger (129 )
12 Feb 13 UTC

I'll play if i can!

Yellowjacket (835 )
13 Feb 13 UTC

wait, wont this guarantee a draw?

Soloing is all but impossible, as soon as one player gets ahead the others will coordinate all his moves for him.

It would work if you said it was gunboat for all conversation except double agent orders.

josunice (3702 )
13 Feb 13 UTC

It is meant to be only communication for orders. Maybe even be just one order per nation. Soloing is still quite possible with eliminated nations still giving orders, too. We'll give a spin after Lando's tourney is done...

Commander_Cool (131 )
13 Feb 13 UTC

I want in on this if there are still slots.

TheMinisterOfWar (553 )
13 Feb 13 UTC

After Lando's party I'm definitely in (assuming I have at least my 100 starting points left :-) ).

43 replies

bo_sox48 (5202

)
12 Feb 13 UTC

School Administrators

They can't seem to focus on important issues... instead focusing on things like arbitrary dress code violations and dumb discussions like whether or not history is worth learning about. I guess they think it's not their job to stop drug use or work with kids on their academics. Maybe sex in middle school isn't a problem to them. What gives?

13 replies