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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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StevenC. (1047 D(B))
18 Aug 09 UTC
New Diplomacy 5: Allies vs Central Powers
more inside....
10 replies
Open
spyman (424 D(G))
18 Aug 09 UTC
Anyone here knowledgable about statistics?
Normally I would try to find an forum that specilizes in this subject but I haven't been too sucessful finding an active forum that I can post too (the few I can find are restricted to invited members only). I tend to find that there's a lot of smart educated people on this site so I thought I might try my luck here.
12 replies
Open
mintsauce (150 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=11444 - Stuck in pause (still)
All players have cancelled pause via button, as suggested by thewonderllama. Still stuck.
1 reply
Open
Gallando (255 D)
16 Aug 09 UTC
webDiplomacy Notifier application in taskbar
I've developed a Win32 taskbar application that monitors webDiplomacy to notify the user when a status change occurs in a game, by changing the icon in the taskbar, depending on the type of notification.
11 replies
Open
kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
13 Aug 09 UTC
Health care reform
I'd like to hear some US opinions on your health care reform (more inside)
Page 9 of 9
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Pete U (293 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@DbJ - that's the wrong example to make your point - your point was that ketchup was all in the marketing.

If I put generic ketchup in a Heinz bottle vs Heinz in a Heinz bottle, Heinz is likely to win. Or if I taste both blind, that's also likely to be the effect. With food (which is where I work), marketing will get you to pick up the produc tonce. Taste etc will get you to keep coming back.

If I put Heinz in a generic bottle vs Heinz in a Heinz bottle, then the Heinz bottle will likely win (although discerning consumers may well be able to tell its the same)
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@Dingle: If you'll recall I mentioned a taste test I performed on myself -

"I know for a fact that 'Heinz' ketchup tastes different from 'Daddies' ketchup (another popular ketchup brand here in the UK) for example, because I happen to have bottles of both in my kitchen just now, and I just went and compared them."

For the record, I prefer the taste of the 'Daddies' brand, and only have a bottle of Heinz in the cupboard because the last time I went shopping, the shop had run out of 'Daddies' brand ketchup.

Are you actually sticking to the argument that all ketchup is the same in the same way that all ibuprofen is the same?
Wow, on yourself? Really? How scientific of you :P

No, i don't think that all ketchup tastes the same. I am saying the brand name affects how we think a product works or tastes. Your perception of its taste will change depending on whether you think its a name brand.
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
Actually, it is probably not an accurate example, but it's inaccurate in a way that reinforces your point.

People are generally willing to pay more for (perceived) quality when it's a matter of health (medicine) than a matter of a basic commodity (ketchup, or food in general). Hence, brand power matters even more.
Here's a study on ice cream which proves that point. I'm sure you could google a million others like it.

http://www.esn-network.com/660.html
ag7433 (927 D(S))
18 Aug 09 UTC
Yes, I livw on the US/MX border. Most people here go to mexico for their dental work because it is cheaper and they even say better. For me, no way am I going there to get my teeth worked on. Even if the quality is technically better. So I am paying more for a perceived quality, since I can't prove it either way except by word of mouth by dozens (hundreds in fact) of people.
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@Jamiet and Pete.
The key (active) ingredients are the same - whether it's ibuprofen or tomatoes - and the rest (flavor, color, shape, etc.) is secondary. You can add a spicy flavor to both ketchup and a pill - this won't make it really different :)
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@ag
or maybe you have some issues with mexicans? Just sounds like it, no offense meant :)
No Ivo, there is definitely a perceived difference in medical practices and licenses in Mexico and the US. I don't think its a racist thing.
Pete U (293 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@Ivo - adding spice to ketchup will make it different. Adding spice to ibuprofen won't. If it didn't then blind taste testing would show that all ketchups (or baked beans or whatever) taste the same - and they don't. Yes, branding plays a role, but food is not like drugs. I've worked in product development for over 10 years, so i know how much difference in flavour you can deliver.

Brand power is an oddity in healthcare which (in some cases) mean that people spend (a lot) more money on something where the active ingredient is the same - the benefit they get is not worth the extra money (i.e it's not 3 or 4 times more effective than generic)

And ivo - I agree with you that people will pay more for 'quality', whether perceived or real - there is a real skill in understanding how far people will 'trade down' in the current economic climate. The business i work for has seen brands in one area suffer significant shrinkage because the 'generic' own-label product still tastes good enough, whereas other brands (including the ones I work on) have held up because the trade down in quality is unacceptable.

In terms of the debate, in the UK a lot of this branded vs generic falls on the doctors, as only over the counter medicines can be advertised. Tbh, I get the impression that more things are advertised in the US - I don't know if that's true
Pete U (293 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@ag - we saw the same thing, with people flying to Poland to get dental work done - faster and cheaper than private care, and in some (not all) locations there isn't enough NHS dental care to go around
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Aug 09 UTC
Back to the issue at hand and healthcare reform. True public healthcare in the US... Pete U's statement just now shows why we DON'T want public healthcare (not saying insurance, but healthcare).

"faster and cheaper than private care, and in some (not all) locations there isn't enough NHS dental care to go around"

No enough to go around. And that's in the UK, nowehere near the 300+ million people of the USofA.
Pete U (293 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@Draug - that's beacuse successive governments have screwed around with dental contracts, and in affluent areas it's more attractive for a dentist to do private work. Personally, I've had no trouble geting NHS care for me and my family, and that's the case for most people. The problem is that there are no quick fixes (it takes years to train dentists) or easy solutions.

A quick google suggests 6 dentists/10000 pop in the US, 3.65/10000 for England & Wales. Even given the ridiculous US obsession with perfect teeth (joke), that sounds like there should be enough to go round.

No healthcare system is perfect - no-one in the UK is ever forced into poverty because of medical bills, but that doesn't mean that everything about the US system is flawed either
"Even given the ridiculous US obsession with perfect teeth (joke)"

LOL, I would have thought the joke went the other way.

I was reading the latest novel by David Hagbert, they were trying to identify the nationality of a body. They knew he was 'Western'.... A look at the suit leads them to believe they are British. One look in the mouth and OBVIOUSLY he wasn't British.
Pete U (293 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@DbJ (and veering off topic) - as a Brit I find the US style 'perfect teeth' just a little bit on the freaky side. Our dentistry isn't bad - we just tend to wait until something NEEDS corrected ;)
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Aug 09 UTC
It is interesting that Eve Myles (Gwen Cooper - Torchwood) is considered a sex symbol with a gap between her front teeth bigger than David Letterman's.
DrOct (219 D(B))
18 Aug 09 UTC
@Draugnar - I'm really having a lot of trouble not cursing and using ad homonym attacks here after you insulted my intelligence, when you very well know from this and other discussions that I'm not an idiot. I try to respect you, even though we frequently disagree, and I would appreciate the same courtesy from you.

Now back to the point you were trying to make. Just what point were you trying to make? You made the statement in response to someone saying that most people are probably one major medical condition away from disaster. This is a discussion on reforming healthcare/insurance reform (and yes, I know very well there's a difference, I have tried to use the proper term where appropriate, but MADE A MISTAKE, which I think is understandable given how often the terms are conflated in the media, and in just about every discussion on the topic, including here). So what exactly was the point you were trying to make? Now you're saying that only about 25% of the population (I'll give you some leeway on that figure, but clearly you assume that the majority of the population isn't qualified for said jobs) has the skills etc to get a job with good health insurance, either through a corporation or a Small to Medium Business (I'm now assuming that's what you meant by SMB?) So... how does that refute the idea that most people are likely to be one emergency away from disaster?

Perhaps I was expanding your statements too far to the wider discussion going on, but it sounded like you were trying to say that anyone who wanted to (and apparently had the skills) could get good insurance, and therefore there wasn't any need to expand coverage to all or most Americans. But now you're saying that 75% of the population doesn't have the skills to get those jobs. So do those people not deserve good health insurance?

So are you satisfied with just covering 25% of the population well? If your point wasn't that anyone that wants good insurance can get it, then what were you trying to say?
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Aug 09 UTC
@DrOct - My point was that you stated not everyone could get one in response to my statement that clearly delineated the difference between those who could and those who couldn't (the "skills" part). Maybe I'm an exception, but any job I've actually wanted, I've gotten an offer for. And I've gotten offers I've turned down before too. But I've never really wanted a position and them pass on me. the closest I ever came was one another company offered me a position first and I accepted, then the other one came back and made an offer. I really wanted the second position, but had already accepted and didn't feel right about backing out of the deal. That was UMR (who I've mentioned before) and I probably should have taken the position with US Robotics. My point is, though, that I don't think I'm any different from any other skilled worker. Any properly motiviated, skilled job-seeker can get a job in corporate America.

Now, the 75% was pulled out of my ass. I'll grant that. I don't have a clue if it is 90%, 9%, or .9%.

I also accept, as I mentioned in the original post, that my statement may not be true in today's abysmal economy. But I believe it holds true when times are/were better...

And I apologize for insulting you / your intelligence. No excuses given because none are acceptable for that.

P.S. Yes, SMB means Small to Medium Business. It is a standard business acronym.
DrOct (219 D(B))
18 Aug 09 UTC
Apology happily accepted! Glad we can all be friends again. :)

I agree that in general people with the right skills and motivation can probably get jobs with good insurance if they want to, but I don't think they're the only people that should get decent insurance (or insurance at all!). Not everyone can get the right training for those jobs, and a lot of unskilled, or less valued skilled workers still perform very important, even vital roles in our economy and society, and I just don't think they should be left out of having access to good health insurance (which less face it means they have much less access to good healthcare) because either they have skills that we don't value, or they don't have the means or connections to get access (this may mean skill training or any number of other things) to a better job that would give them some sort of good health insurance.

Now I'm ALL for greater education and training for the American workforce! I think everyone should get as much education as they can, but not everyone is suited for every field, and even if everyone was, there are only so many jobs in any given field. No matter what some people are going to be left out, or are going to have to do something else. I just think it's only fair that everyone get access to decent health coverage. I also happen think in the end it would cost us all as a society less than our current system, which is costly and I think unfair.


259 replies
fortknox (2059 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
Put in your orders!
I hate having to have to say this, but when you have a game where you have no orders: PUT SOME ORDERS IN! Don't finalize them unless you are sure, but ALWAYS have orders in. That way you don't NMR even when you are active. I've been in one too many games where my ally was going to enter in orders late when he had a chance only to get busy and miss the end of the turn. Don't let it happen to you! Always put in orders! Having two red "!!"'s should be an alert to you to put in orders!
3 replies
Open
cteno4 (100 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
That Diplomacy-points character
How do you type it into text documents like forum posts and comment threads? I've seen it on here a couple of times.
16 replies
Open
ag7433 (927 D(S))
18 Aug 09 UTC
Publishing
Has anyone had a book published (not self published or ebook), but through a legitimate publisher? I'm curious how incredibly difficult it is.
6 replies
Open
StevenC. (1047 D(B))
18 Aug 09 UTC
Need a new France....
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=12484
2 replies
Open
Parallelopiped (691 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
Unpause game
Hi - all seven players have voted to unpause the game Stab-Happy. Does anyone know how long we need to wait for before the unpause takes effect? Can it be done immediately?
0 replies
Open
myth1202 (900 D)
18 Aug 09 UTC
Pause game. Quick response needed
Can someone please pause game 12563 ("who needs passwords?? Gunboat nopress")? France announced eraly that he was going away and noone seemed to have problem. Now there are a couple of hours to deadline and I am not sure the paus will pass...

Thanks!
1 reply
Open
amonkeyperson (100 D)
16 Aug 09 UTC
20,000 people convert to Islam each year.
Inside....
75 replies
Open
StevenC. (1047 D(B))
18 Aug 09 UTC
Can a moderator please check this game?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=12437
1 reply
Open
Carpysmind (1423 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
Support Question
Can a Fleet in Rom sup a move from Gal to Bud?
8 replies
Open
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
17 Aug 09 UTC
Movies
I'm sure a lot of people on here all enjoy a good movie, so I thought this would be a good idea to share some of our favorites.
12 replies
Open
ArmaniBoy (100 D)
16 Aug 09 UTC
Racism?
I don't like the name of this guy: http://webdiplomacy.net/profile.php?userID=17393
65 replies
Open
ag7433 (927 D(S))
12 Aug 09 UTC
END WORD Game 2.0
Only play if you try to get to the END WORD.
Example if Start= Wood; End= Car: Wood, Fuel, Gas, CAR!
***This is a game of group collaboration and thought.***
249 replies
Open
Steve1519 (100 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
Message to judge! ID = 12438
In The Anti-Stab League I am directed to retreat my Russian army in Liverpool to either Clyde (which is currently occupied) or Wales. I'm sorry if I am missing something obvious, but why do I need to retreat?

Thanks for the site.
4 replies
Open
JECE (1248 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
Record of point gains and losses
Look at these games I joined late in:
gameID=12048
gameID=11819
Obviously, I should not have win 59 D after a bet of 3 in Iberian Lynx. In fact, I did not. The points were originally calculated correctly and I won 6 D in the end. I am only posting this here because I thought this would have been fixed already, and it has no been.
4 replies
Open
Centurian (3257 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
A View to a Kiel
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=12830
36 hour phases, 50 point bet, WTA
Join up folks!
1 reply
Open
ag7433 (927 D(S))
16 Aug 09 UTC
Humor
Is it me or is nothing funny anymore (on TV / Movies)? Is it me losing my sense of humor, or is the talent going through a dry spell?
37 replies
Open
marestyle (185 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
Survival
If a player survives a game, does he get a piece of the loot (earn more dollars than he invested)?
2 replies
Open
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
16 Aug 09 UTC
Crime and Punishment and Michael Vick
As a lifelong Eagles fan.....
47 replies
Open
Carpysmind (1423 D)
16 Aug 09 UTC
“Civil Disorder” Penalty
What are players thoughts on further penalizing those players who go “CD”? Players that go CD are just as bad as ‘multi-players’ (and in many instances are one in the same). Would it keep players from joining games they were unwilling to finish?
6 replies
Open
lkruijsw (100 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
FIRST PERSON TO POST WINS!!!!!
Ah ah, that is me! It took me only one message.
2 replies
Open
Crazyter (1335 D(G))
15 Aug 09 UTC
SUN Game Live
anyone interested? At 12 noon EST (GMT-4) if there are at least 5 people, we will do it!
14 replies
Open
sean (3490 D(B))
17 Aug 09 UTC
Any Live Game success stories out there?
1st, do they work? We might try a live game soon in our league game, can anyone out there tell us your live game stories, pitfalls to avoid? tips? timing considerations? thanks
2 replies
Open
mintsauce (150 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=11444 - Stuck in pause (again)
We've tried every combination of /unpause or pressing the pause button.
1 reply
Open
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
13 Aug 09 UTC
Taking the opposing side
So here's a challenge for you all. The topic of marijuana legalization came up a while back and I think most people were in favor of legalization. Practice your powers of persuasion - convince me that marijuana should remain illegal.
110 replies
Open
digitsu (1254 D)
17 Aug 09 UTC
lets never start a 'last person to post wins' thread again.
its juvenile.
9 replies
Open
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