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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
07 Apr 07 UTC
phpDiplomacy & swearing
People are allowed to swear, but not for the sake of swearing or offending.

If you have a complaint about a user e-mail me at [email protected] , posting it in the forum isn't constructive.
2 replies
Open
Joffre (696 D)
01 Apr 07 UTC
Don't play with PLEASEBEITALY
Hi,

Well, if you don't want to be insulted at least:

PLEASEBEITALY as Austria (): 3 units. Last logged in: 03:08 PM

Thu 06 PM YOU TALKED TO ITALY DUMBASS- OK THANKS BYE- THANKS FOR PLAYING

03:04 PM next time suck my balls ok...
You want to lose the game for yourself be my guess
Salmaneser (6160 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
Hmm, could you explain that a little more?
figlesquidge (2131 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
That is the view I come to. However, if there is nothing more to it, then it is a shame. Note: since i have no facts on the issue in question, the below comments are impersonal statements of my opinion.
As with any online game, as it grows phpDiplomacy will attract more and more people who act like idiots, and are rude whenever something doesn't go their way. Often these are 13year olds, although I have known of a lot of sensible 13 year olds, and terrible 29year olds. Several times I have had this sort of response on here, although it has only been occurring since around mid-February, which supports my point.
Lets just hope that the entrance into this phase of growth doesn't cause older members to give up on playing with those joining anew...
Locke (1846 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
Well put figlesquidge!!!
figlesquidge (2131 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
As always :)
To be honest, if someone has a capital letter in the middle of their name, they will always be suspicious in this respect!
As for typing a whole name with the caps lock on . . .
Chrispminis (916 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
If they insult you, destroy them. : )
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
ha you think thats bad you should see what i did to the other 2 guys who pissed me off (which im sure you will soon). If you want to ban me ban me, if you want me to stop ill stop, i do it for fun, it dosnt make me an idiot.

But since I see that it could keep players from laying ill stop and I oppologize to

Joffry
Ryuzo
and Carnage 1104

will be more reserved now.

I just cant stand guys who act like big shots because they can backstab somemone on the first turn like Joffre and Ryuzo
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
*playing appologize too
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
and if you want me to explain what happened above Salamansar, I received Proof that Joffre Turkey had sent myself Russia and Italy the same message offering the same provinces, I told him I knew and he denied it, I told him I knew from italy and he said he didnt even talk to italy, I had to paste the proof to him to catch him in the lie. I dont mind people lieing but the fact that he lied three times in a row pissed me of and ended up in the message. I appologize. The last message came after a cheeky reply after Russia had steamrolled me alone. Joffre wrote "Next time you shouldn't call people names" afte ri hadnt talked to him for a while, and after he did nothing. Therefore the last message. I appologize again.

Wont happen again, Ill let everything lay, I just dont know why everyone is so sensitive.
figlesquidge (2131 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
Wow - an apology! Not something that comes frequently in forums!
In my opinion, what is said in a game should stay in that game, as long as it is polite. Diplomacy is a game about subterfuge, so to tell people they have found your secret would be rather stupid, so actually I agree with the strategy (if thats what happened). The only thing that really annoys me is when people are rude. Personally, whenever I stab I make sure my ex-ally knows it is nothing personally (unless it is, in which case they know this!).
Joffre (696 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
I am indeed surprised to see that PLEASEBEITALY has written an appology.
And, yes this is a game of discussion, strategy and subterfuge.
So, I believe there is nothing wrong in lying in that game since it is basicly the way you going to win anyway.
Insulting people is another matter IHMO.

Thanks for your time
--
Joffre
hyperbolic (233 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
Im not sure you guys have the emotional capabilities to play this game.
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
frankly i dont think insulting people for lying is anything wrong, if you cant handle it dont do it, but whatever
GeorgyZhukov (436 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
Well, the whole point of this game DOES involve lying and scheming against others, including your allies. :P

At least until team winning becomes an option.
kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
02 Apr 07 UTC
Some politicians say "Yo" and can barely form a sentence, some are very well spoken, some shout and foam at the mouth, I don't see the problem with having representations of each here
GeorgyZhukov (436 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
Zing.
kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
02 Apr 07 UTC
No zing, I just don't think it's a big deal ;-)
braddles31 (100 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
i think its time to close this forum issue.
The ONLY intelligent reply of any substance has come from figlesquidge.
Well said, as was pointed out earlier.
Also, diplomacy IS about lying and scheming... and i have been called worse or read other worse descriptive replies to other players in games, even to the point of sexuality race and gender.
What i can tell from here is childish if nothing else. Certainly nothing to complain about....
And since Feb, yes i guess the kids have access to computers again huh?
Gautman (289 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
My two cents':
Have any of you heard seen any of the quotes from the Nixon tapes? Suck my balls sounds like a come-on given the way real-life pols talk.

In this game there are no rules with respect to what you say, how you say it, etc. I am even thinking of incorporating some suck my balls into my strategy.

And I sympathize with PLEASE* because it is truly hopeless to be Austria when Russia and Austria are allied, and even more so when Italy's in on it.

Finally, an abdicate button and quicker cd will deal with the issues raised by 13-year olds having access to the game. I'd rather someone who knows how to play and is committed to seeing even a losing game through than someone who signs up and disappears.
Gautman (289 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
Ironic name PLEASEBE*? And ironic that you got stabbed by Italy?
Chrispminis (916 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
I am personally indifferent to all of this. I generally try to be polite however, since it is a Diplomatic game, and you don't want to be playing another game with a player you repeatedly insulted.

If someone insults me, I won't ally with them. Simple. I may even decide to orchestrate something grand against them. As well, I'll keep that person in mind in future games. Posting about insults here will probably not get any enforcement, but it will definitely punish rude players, since if made public, people might be less inclined to ally with them.

Threats can be polite.
figlesquidge (2131 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
This is just a quick point from me - sorry to any 13 year olds who are sensible on here. I remember when this referred to me, and how annoying it was that people assume everyone that age is an idiot! Anyway, I think we've come to a conclusion: be polite, or you will be in trouble.
dangermouse (5551 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
Well stated Chrispminis.

One comment about keeping people in mind for future games. It's one thing to remember that a player is consistantly rude and obnoxious and to hold that against them in future games. It's another to take the "he backstabbed me last game so I'm gunning for him now" mentality. (not to imply that's what you meant...just a thought that came to mind)
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
Last post, if you want to know why im so frusterated take a look for yourself

http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=679

what you have here isnt an Alliance between turkey and Germany its Turkey giving the ga to Germany because he either dosnt realize it or his vendetta against me. Very annoying
Noodlebug (1812 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
We all get frustrated when players start doing things that are not in their own interest and seem to give the game away to another player at your expense - it's happened to me very recently! But that's the nature of the game, there's no point in being rude to them if diplomacy doesn't work. It's annoying, but so is losing generally!
venusian_cat (260 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
as you say, Noodlebug, and with PLEASEBEITALY it's the pot calling the kettle black, I think. Here's a communication he sent me earlier in our game: "Listen up, HERES THE DEAL. if you want to get cute, pull a fast one on me and take the channel this turn i will freak out and ally with whoever i ned to to screw you over even if it means ill lose"
dangermouse (5551 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
that seems like a perfectly acceptable threat to me. sometimes the only way to get another player to listen is the threat to aid their enemies.
Chrispminis (916 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
There's nothing a rational player fears more than an irrational player.
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
yeah venusians just angry i stabbed him and hes in a bad place
venusian_cat (260 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
not at all, and I wasn't criticising the content of your message - it just seemed odd that you would complain about someone else throwing a game to get revenge and then threaten to do the same yourself. Personally I think you played very well and I wish you the best of luck :-)
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
saying ill do it and actually doing it is a different thing, if you want to see another game where i made that promise check out USA war. Turkey threatened me, i said go ahead but ill end your game, he attacked, i brought in Austria and promised him all the balkins, and i recently stabbed him and im in the game
Noodlebug (1812 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
oooh, stabbed in the Balkens... that's painful!
AntoniusRex (1136 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
er... figlesquidge, I resent that comment about "capital letters in the middle of the name", but not less than the other unfortunate one about 29-year-olds who seem less mature than 13-year-olds. Does that mean that 30+ should not apply? If that's the case, then I've been playing here ilegally. I'm 40.
kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
05 Apr 07 UTC
I guess he meant that not all 13 year olds are immature and not all 29 year olds are mature, and he was half-joking about the capital letters in the middle of the name thing.
But this isn't the place to discuss this, please keep forum posts on-topic as we don't have an off-topic sub-forum we can move threads to yet.
figlesquidge (2131 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
Sorry, I didn't mean in the way you have yours , where if I am correct the capital is there to separate two parts of the name. I was thinking more of the sort of people who name themselves jAmEs because they think it's cool and clever
AntoniusRex (1136 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
wow! :) ok guys lighten up! I was trying to make a joke... :) I just want to say that it seems to me that you're doing a helluva job here... you're always taking care of requests, that only comes from sheer dedication... and pro bono work, as I think it actually is. Besides, it's not easy to devise a set of rules for automatic adjudication in dip; most of the people I know that have tried to do so have decided to hardcode all the possible map situations.
Kestajk, I agree with you, this is clearly off-topic. I won't be using this channel anymore... at least until a "do your own thing" topic is created.
Keep up the good work!
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
Well im honored that the post made about me is the most popular of the whole forum, to sum it all up, you can still play with me if you are not over sensitive, and im done
isbian (106 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
People generally don't swear in Diplomacy. Have any of you guys noticed that?
isbian (106 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
I think I figured it out. Most (if not all) of the pro guys have been backstabbed or have lost a lot over their "career". So they're sort of used to it. But the new guys will probably get very disappointed when in the first game they join, they either get stabbed or are losing badly. So they end up swearing. That's what I did the first time I got stabbed.
azapcap (0 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
*cough* *Cough* Isbian, you're the one that swears the most in this entire site...to your fellow classmates definatly...i don't know what you do to the other people on this site.
Chrispminis (916 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
I've never been angry when I've been stabbed. I've never sworn at someone on this site. Swearing isn't the best diplomatic tactic, and typically, there are things you can say without swearing that get the same message across. It's about winning, not about going out in blazes. = )
fastspawn (1625 D)
07 Apr 07 UTC
sometimes swearing can be a tactic. Swearing sometimes imply irrationality on the part of the user, and what everyone fears most is the irrational player willing to destroy them both in a blaze of glory. One can use that irrational irrationality to an advantage especially when one has built a reputation for such play.

I think pleasebeitaly has now garnered that reputation. Use it well, young one. It could be your crown... or your burden.
Locke (1846 D)
07 Apr 07 UTC
i don't think i can be quite as deep as fastspawn, but i actually quite like pleasebeitaly, at least with him what you see is waht you get. i'd rather be called a whatever there an then than be schemed against for the rest of the game.
Smokodanko (618 D)
07 Apr 07 UTC
That's like saying, "yeah, you know don't play with anyone here, they're all a**holes."

Give me a break, if you can't peel your eyes off a threat that someone is saying half a world away on a site then you might just need counseling one day.
isbian (106 D)
07 Apr 07 UTC
Sorry Azapcap. I'm past that now.
isbian (106 D)
07 Apr 07 UTC
Swearing cannot really be called a tactic. It only provokes your enemies and makes them want to attack you.
Chrispminis (916 D)
07 Apr 07 UTC
Unless it's unfeasible for them to attack you, and they are rational.


46 replies
Vash (864 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
For of these 'password' games
If you have a game with a password and you want people to join it post the password or better yet dont make a passwoed at all - Seems pointless to me because I see three games thats been open for some hours now and it has passwords on it

Then there was another game that said "if you want to join use the 'normal' password - FYI people, in case those people such as new comers to the site post the some call 'normal' password so they will know about it

And if your making a password game for your friends...send them the password some how first then make the room

Samething for all of these other 29 games that are open but you cant join because they are in civil disorder and some you can join and rise to power
4 replies
Open
Salmaneser (6160 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
Map error
In the game 'Only Tactics', map isn't showing. It says 'either there is an error, or this map isn't available'.
2 replies
Open
Johnson (320 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
Small suggestion for big map
Hi there, I love the new history feature but just fyi the less-computer-savvy players in my game thought the big map view was removed completely when the history was implemented...They didn't realize the small green icon fires the big map...
So a usability suggestion on behalf of newbies and computer-illiterates: provide a blatantly obvious button to expand the big map...They're often too afraid of breaking something or screwing up their moves to actually experiment with GUI widgets...
0 replies
Open
KimJongSick (120 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
New game
It's called LMAO Zedong, it's an open game. Preferably newer people since this is only my third day playing, but anybody's welcome, really.
0 replies
Open
AntoniusRex (1136 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
New Game - Goliath
Feel free to join, no password required. Fast players welcome.
0 replies
Open
QCadd (100 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
Holy noob game, Batman!
I would like to invite all people who are new to the game to ASPLODE. There is no password, so just join up and have fun.
0 replies
Open
tester5 (267 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
Apology
I would like to apologize to anyone currently playing a match with me. For the past few days I have been really tied up and unable to post my moves. I apologize for the inconvenience and for affecting my allies and games.
0 replies
Open
PLEASEBEITALY (100 D)
06 Apr 07 UTC
Balance of power
Beautiful example of Balance of Power. Love this game because it puts all the theories you learn in IR to work.

http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=350
0 replies
Open
Alistair (156 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
Attacking a convoy...
Forgive me, I'm a rookie. Will attacking a fleet attempting to convoy a unit cancel that action if the fleet doesn't get displaced, or will the unit land regardless?
4 replies
Open
Arthas (1769 D)
04 Apr 07 UTC
Major Bug?
In the game "deathcomes" (http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=699), I am Austria, and it is now Autumn, the building units phase. I have Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece, and 3 units, and yet the game tells me to disband 3 units. What is up?

This could be a major bug.
10 replies
Open
abcbac22 (100 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
Draws
how can we agree to a draw? (if possible)
2 replies
Open
azapcap (0 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
Civil Disorder
I think that countries in civil disorder should only be allowed to be taken over by other people during movement phases. Because, if they join during the retreat phase, they can move the next turn. For Example: If i was turkey and i saw that Russia was in Civil Disorder, i would have gone after his supply centers, but what happens is that another person joins during the retreat phase and they move to the Black Sea and they can take Constantinople or Ankara uncontested.
15 replies
Open
kingdom_of_poison (100 D)
05 Apr 07 UTC
COME ON IN
COME PLAY BATLE SHIP WITH ME
0 replies
Open
dangermouse (5551 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
Allied victory revisited
I've done some more thinking and I've got to say I'm very strongly opposed to allowing allied victory in every game. Strategy is profoundly effected by its existence and it allows friends to consistantly work together without any fear of a backstab.

Figle and others have stated that because the victory condition for allied win is 28 (approx?) supply depots that this is less of a problem but that isn't true. Once any one or two people control 18 supply depots between themselves it is literally impossible for them to lose if they work together and plan intelligently.

A point system which rewards less for an allied victory than a solo might mitigate this somewhat but as an allied victory is much more simple to reach (as per my comments above) the reward for an allied victory would need to be MUCH less. 4 to 5 times less in my opinion.

I'm not saying I would never want to allow allied victory, but there has to be an option to permanently disable it when creating a new game until such point/ranking system is in place.
5 replies
Open
kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
02 Apr 07 UTC
History is back
History has been re-implemented, so now you should be able to look back through your games. Older members will remember the old version of history, I think this way is much less cludgy.

Let me know if there are problems with different browsers, there are bound to be some. (If you know JavaScript and can submit a patch that'd be great, I don't have Safari, Opera, <IE7 or <FF2)
12 replies
Open
Arthas (1769 D)
04 Apr 07 UTC
phpDiplomacy's Compatibility With Opera
Opening up a game in phpDiplomacy using Opera 9.10 gives a totally messed up webpage. The text is spewed all over the page, it goes out of the text box and into the picture, and some text even goes beneath the picture. Is this problem going to be fixed any time soon?
2 replies
Open
AteTrack13 (100 D)
04 Apr 07 UTC
BALLIN game up
BALLIN game is now up. join.
0 replies
Open
hiimme333html (100 D)
04 Apr 07 UTC
huh? a war? what?
that game is open to anyone who wants to join. no password.
0 replies
Open
Alfa (1308 D)
04 Apr 07 UTC
*BORED* is stuck
It's been stuck for 5+ minutes with all players checking in as finalized.
1 reply
Open
Metternich471 (137 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
little bug
I just submitted orders for a build phase and was the last player to finalize, so the turn was processed immediately. When I refreshed the page, a shrunken version of the big map is displayed in place of the small map with alternate text about the map not being available. When I followed the black "Board" link, the little map loaded fine.

I've never noticed this bug before. I'm guessing it's a problem related to the just-re-enabled history function.
2 replies
Open
figlesquidge (2131 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
What's being done
Although I have a vague idea, I'm just wondering whats being done by other developers.
Personally, I have allied victory code on its way through checks, although I think think it up to standard after the embarrassing failing of the last attempted install, when some stupid bugs I had suppressed for testing came back up.
Since doing that, I've been working on a fully compliant adjudicator. The progress on this has passed the algorithm phase, been written, and now is free of all code or SQL errors. This means that tomorrow (UK) I will be able to start checking how it handles more advanced sets of moves. So far, all I have processed was a quite simple set of moves, but these handled perfectly, so let the DATC tests start!
0 replies
Open
figlesquidge (2131 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
Upgrade !?!
I notice that the map seems to have been upgraded. Just a comment about how this could be improved really: putting a loading image up between when the button is clicked and when the new image is loaded would make it a lot more sensible. For example, where I am currently has not the fastest net connection. This means that loading the map takes quite a long time, and so when using this tool, maps show unchanged when the title shows a different phase. Also, this loading time might be reduced through use of a gif for the image format. Is anyone looking into this?
9 replies
Open
EricHerboso (836 D)
31 Mar 07 UTC
Setting Preferences for Player Assignment
I did a little research on how other people have solved the problem of satisfying players' preferences for which country they start with, and have done a little thinking of my own on the issue. I will share what I found here.

First of all, I should note that official rules state that countries should be distributed randomly, as is (presumably) already done here at phpDiplomacy. But I'll ignore that for the moment....

An excellent primer on the different methods for assigning countries is available at [http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/Zine/F1998M/Tarzan/assign.html]. Unfortunately, no algorithms are given there, but it is a quick and easy way to get around the philosophical issues that must be dealt with for each method of determining player assignment. Since phpDiplomacy is aimed at ease of use, and so has far more potential to be used by newer players than any other online Diplomacy system on the web right now, it is important to keep this aspect of phpDiplomacy's unique situation in perspective. Fairness is important in all of its forms, but most important here is keeping players happy. We must minimize situations where players are assigned countries that they do not want. This means Method 2 Variation B or a bottom weighted C is the way to go.

But we also must not neglect the importance of being able to choose ties for preferences, a random starting position, and a no preference option. This is where things get a bit tricky.

The order of execution is what is important here. Players who want a random country should be processed first, followed by those with a preference, followed by those who don't care. Random must come first, otherwise it will not be random.

(There is a possible argument here. Consider if six players pick random and one chooses anything but Italy, then it is possible for that one player to get Italy, even though no one else had a real preference for any individual country. But I feel this is acceptable, because these players wanted a true random starting position, whereas if they really didn't care, they could instead have chosen 'Don't Care', which would be a random position set _after_ all other players have gotten their preferences. (This is why 'Don't Care' should be default setting.) You might argue that this is 'rewarding' the players who want a random country; that argument would be correct, since if you pick random, you always get what you want, whereas if you pick England and have no other preferences, you may not get what you want. But I don't care--I don't feel like rewarding the 'Random' players in this way is a bad thing.)

After random is processed, then player preferences must be taken into account. I recommend the simplex algorithm method. (See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex_algorithm_method].) This is what I would use if I were in charge of determining what method to utilize. If desired, I can create a simplified algorithm for optimizing a seven dimensional solution for the site. But I don't know coding very well, so I would need help translating from straight mathematics to practical code you can use on the site.

And finally the remaining countries would be assigned randomly to those players that chose 'do not care'.


Please note that DPJudge uses a system I _highly_ detest; it takes into account who inputs their preferences first in order to determine who gets what, and has no option for true randomization.

The following two rec.games.diplomacy threads may be of interest to those who also want to look into this:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.diplomacy/browse_thread/thread/a46bb326f3d62461/f6c8f50a6b85259a#f6c8f50a6b85259a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.diplomacy/browse_thread/thread/a06586526d5165b1/771960de312cc03d#771960de312cc03d

Other options include utilizing a brute force method, which only has to go through 7! combinations (5040), or a pseudo-brute force method, which picks 1000 or so random combinations and picks the best from those tried. These would be easiest to code, but would be hardest on the computation. Another option would be to remove the possibility of ties in players' preference setting, which would make the optimal solution extremely easy to find.

Please respond with any comments or criticism on the method I've described above.
11 replies
Open
kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
30 Mar 07 UTC
Database server offloaded services
Dreamhost got back to me and told me they had offloaded some services from the database server phpDiplomacy uses. This should hopefully mean things will go back to being quick again, finally.
5 replies
Open
rogé (100 D)
03 Apr 07 UTC
map problems
im not sure if anyone else is having this problem but in some games when i load up and look at the map it looks blury and really hard to see clearly i was wondering if anyone else is having this problem and knows how to get rid of it
3 replies
Open
Arthas (1769 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
New Open Game
It's called "TURKZ", the only Great Power I have yet to play, and yet so want to play. No password.
0 replies
Open
GeorgyZhukov (436 D)
02 Apr 07 UTC
I was wondering...
I know all the programers are hard at work right now, but do you think once the basics are down you can put in an option system? Having 18 SCs rather than units is in the original rules, but it would be interesting to be able to customize this. Taking over the whole map is a fun option. Like wise, having team wins is good for allied play actually working out, but the whole backstabbing trust no one nature is fun too sometimes. Just wondering if you could implement a choice in games later on (Getting it to work comes first!)
3 replies
Open
fastspawn (1625 D)
01 Apr 07 UTC
is there a way to check statistics?
Especially for percentage of countries that win the game, that survive till the end, that lose completely?
1 reply
Open
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