"Last I checked to have the right's of a U.S. Citizen you had to be born in the United States."

The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, for your consideration (emphasis mine):

"All *persons* born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are *citizens* of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of *citizens* of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any *person* of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any *person* within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I know you've had a lot of trouble with legal English, but do try to pay attention to the difference between 'person' and 'citizen'. See also the ruling in Yick Wo v. Hopkins which determined that the Equal Protection clause applied to non-citizens:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yick_Wo_v._Hopkins

Also, refugees aren't just being stopped from these countries, the USA is currently taking 0 refugees as a result of this order.

"I haven't said anything like that. No one in the 1930s and 40s restricted Jewish refugees because they came from terror prone regions and wanted to restrict them temporarily until new vetting protocols could be implemented."

If you replace "came from terror-prone regions" with "were Nazi spies," this is actually *exactly* the reasoning by which Jewish refugees were turned away. Please read about it:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/

Well you don't have to be born in the U.S. to become a Citizen. You can be naturalized.

The Due Process Amendment extends protections to U.S. Citizens and non U.S. Citizens residing on legal U.S. territory. They are entitled to equal protections under the law.

however, someone attempting to come to the United States does not get due process because they are not residing within the United States or it's territory and they are not a U.S. Citizen. This restriction does not apply to U.S. Citizens returning to the U.S. from the restricted nations.

Unless you are trying to tell me that places like Syria or Iraq are U.S. Territory. If they are U.S. Territory then I would agree Due Process would extend to them. But, no Syria and Iraq and Iran are not parts of the United States so the Constitution does not apply there.

@ND Regardless of constitutional law (the courts will figure that out), do you not see that it is wrong to hold foreigners without access to legal counsel indefinitely?

Do you just not have empathy cells or something? There must be something physiologically wrong with you to see things in such a warped, fucked way.

Your ignorance of the Constitution is not the reason it's correct to say refugees are being denied their rights. Your ignorance of the relevant UN treaties is the reason.

Also, in case you missed it in the other thread:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/sorry-mr-president-the-obama-administration-did-nothing-similar-to-your-immigration-ban/

"Last I checked to have the right's of a U.S. Citizen you had to be born in the United States."

That is such a birther statement.

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/rights-and-responsibilities-permanent-resident/rights-and-responsibilities-green-card-holder-permanent-resident

I would like to point out the line:

"As a permanent resident (green card holder), you have the right to:

Be protected by all laws of the United States, your state of residence and local jurisdictions"

Do some research yourself.

Who is being held indefinitely?

I've already clarified my statement with an above post Kramerkov18.

nvm, just looked it up, nobody being held indefinitely.

Yeah no one is being held indefinitely.

The problem with your statement ND is that people who live here with valid forms of residency, such as green cards, are being effected. Their rights are not being respected. I don't care if it's for a brief period it's still unlawful.

Can you provide a link about that, an up to date one, because I know there was some initial confusion about it, but I believe it has been sorted.

Please provide a clear form of evidence to reinforce your statement.

More to the point, Condescension, there is solid evidence that white Christian conservatives are far more prone to terrorism than refugees. If we are serious about keeping the country safe we ought to be deporting those guys or preemptive key locking them up or something

There is no evidence to support that Ogion.

Best bet is to kill Merlin. Or if yer a good guy keep him safe.

@ND there is no evidence to support the idea that immigrants or refugees from these countries commit more terrorism than anyone else, either. So....

There is actually. Just count the amount of terrorist attacks that occur in terror prone nations. Also please count the amount of planned terrorist attacks that are stopped before they can be committed in the United States. There is amble of evidence.

ND, that is flawed logic. Yes, the populations of these countries commit more terrorist acts per capita. However, your claim is that the current vetting process is not stringent enough. If this were the case, current immigrants from these countries would be committing more terrorism. Therefore, you have to prove that immigrants from these countries commit more terrorist acts, not just that more terrorist acts occur in their countries of origin.

If you have the stats, I'd appreciate them.

But I've looked for a looong time and there doesn't seem to be stats on it.

You ignored my point about all of the people that have been arrested for planning terrorist attacks. Those figures are just as valid.

Where are the figures?

I agree, they count. Prove that more people from these countries are arrested than from elsewhere.

@"from several terror prone nations."

How many terrorist attack have come from Iran? Wasn't Osama Bin Laden (and 15 of the 9/11 highjackers) from Saudi Arabia, which isn't on the list.

Seriously, Syria and Iraqi refugees are fleeing attacks, largely from US bullets and bombs. And the militants there are sticking put and trying to take over there, not export their terror to the US.

It is only in Saudi Arabia, where the US provides huge military aid in exchange for oil, where the people can't protest against the government, but blame the US for keeping the House of Saud in power... It is there that many terrorists come from.

You may like the idea of the historic protests of Boston and Civil rights. But you're blind to much of the recent history of the middle east ad US involvement there since world war 2.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-executive-order-could-block-legal-residents-from-returning-to-america

Seems to me the only update on this debacle is that the administration is back peddling to save it's own ass ND.

If you want more precise numbers look here.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/01/30/these-communities-have-a-lot-at-stake-in-trumps-executive-order-on-immigration/

Oh wait, by 'terror probe nations' you (ND) mean countries that the US has destabilised?

Has sent in troops, or armed rebels, or blown up people with drone strikes?

Is that your measure?
Libya - helped ensure the government was over thrown, and Gaddafi was killed. Left a power vacumn and anti-US sentiment - which propelled ISIS affiliates into some power.
Iraq - regime was changed, became less safe. Founding of ISIS in the remains that the US left behind.
Syria - rebels supported by the US failed to take down the government, US ally Saydi Arabia sends support for ISIS to take over Syria, NATO member Turkey allows ISIS cross border into Turkey to sell oil and buy weapons...
Iran - no known terrorist activities. US sanctions hit their economy badly, until Obama normalised relations.

What are the other 3 nations on the list again?
Somalia - famous for Black Hawk Down... So again similar to Libya...

These nations are clearly enemies of the US, not terrorist prone nations.

Step 1 to preventing Fascism, don't elect a big government conservative such as Bush
Step 2 to preventing Fascism, don't elect a big government liberal such as Obama
Step 3 to preventing Fascism, don't elect a big government populist su-

You know what? fuck this. I'm going to Germany. Nothing bad ever happens there