Here gymnasium diplomas are worth jack shit unless you are applying to university of applied sciences (not to be mistaken to real universities, ohhh snap) and even then the max starting points cap at like 8, maybe 8.5 max. Now abitur exams is where it all matters and here no one does it anyway since we get free food at schools, free books (untill 9th grade), pens, papers, rubbers etc.. You have to literelly teach your kid 18 subjects which a teacher assigned by the county will see to that the kid is on par. Ain't no one got time for that!

We are discussing different schools here, Ramsu. You are talking about regular secondary education. They are talking about the difference between home schooling vs public schools:

The term public school refers to a group of older, more expensive and exclusive fee-paying private independent schools, which cater primarily for children aged between 13 and 18. Together these schools comprise only around 1% of the total number of schools.

That's what "public school" means in the United Kingdom. In the United States, "public schools" are tuition-free, government funded schools from kindergarten to high school. "Private schools" have tuitions and oftentimes entrance examinations.

X3n0n, I am simply responding to the OP's original post. Also here public schools as you defined them differ from what we have here. The schools for people aged 7-18 if private, must have a special permit by government and must be non-profit, so no tuition fees. So private schools are really just like normal schools with maybe a bit different schedule ie. they have more music/sports/whatever since they cannot have less of anything compared to "normal" schools.

Jeff, actually private high schools in California do not need to be accredited at all. And not having a proper high school diploma has held some homeschoolers back from military service, financial aid, and college admissions in the past, but the HSLDA always goes to bat for them and works to get policies changed.

caveat emptor applies to high school education as well.

If your school of choice isn't accredited, the burden is on you.

I think it works okay when the local schools are subpar, parents are heavily involved in the instruction and a curriculum is kept to. I had some friends in college who had been homeschooled and they were very well adjusted and well educated.

Stuff You Should Know just did a podcast on this recently. Very informative on the topic.

@Ramsu Danke für Erklärung. Natürlich weiß ich wie es in Deutschland läuft. Allerdings dürfen Privatschulen Gebühren nehmen, selbst sehr hohe (wie es in meiner Schule der Fall). Sie müssen lediglich am Ende eines Geschäftsjahres bei ±0 landen (OK, Schulden sind auch erlaubt). Außerdem dürfen private Schulen erstaunlich stark vom allgemeinen Lehrplan abweichen (Waldorfschulen und Jena-Plan-Schulen, zB.) oder Fächer obligatorisch setzen, was in öffentlichen Schulen nicht erlaubt ist (bspw. protestantischen Religionsunterricht für alle, also auch Muslime, Katholiken, etc.). Dies ist übrigens der häufigste Fall. Solche Schulen dürfen auch Kopftuchverbote und (gemischten) Schwimmunterricht/Sportunterricht verpflichtend machen. Ebenfalls etwas was viele tun. Im vorletzten hat das BVerfG dies bestätigt gemeinsam mit der Erlaubnis für private (auch nichtkonfessionelle) Schulen, Lehrer zu entlassen, die eindeutig Symbole unerwünschter Religionen zu tragen beginnen, auch wenn das Personal ansonsten arbeitsrechtlich davor geschützt ist. Das kommt dem christian school system in Amerika sehr nahe.

Missed the country by ~1200km southwest x3n0n:P

Ah, Du lebst in Deutsch Südwest?

More like Finland

But that is northeast ;) I know Finland is stricter in this regard. That they fare much better then the home country of home schooling further strengthens my opinion on it.

The anti-homeschooling policies in Germany and Sweden are in violation of UN treaties.

I'm sure America has a lot of moral authority to complain about that.

Like which ones Mujus?

Ramsu, here's an article on the situation in Sweden: http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/201501060.asp

And here's an excerpt from just one article that gives the UN language, the Swedish violation of it, and the German rewording of the UN language: "In 2010 the Swedish Government, a fully bound member of the European Union, banned and criminalised homeschooling, effective from July 2011, in violation of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms which reads:

"Everyone has the right to education... Education shall be directed towards the full development of the human personality... No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise of any function which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the state shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions." (Article §2 of Protocol No.1 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Incorporated into Swedish law on 1 January 1995 and since 1 January 2010 and the signing of the Lisbon Treaty, the a priori law of Sweden)

The United Nations' Declaration of Universal Human Rights similary states:

"Parents have a priority right to choose the kind of education their children shall receive" (Article §26(3) of the United Nations Declaration of Universal Human Rights, 1948. Not a part of Swedish law but carries great moral and ethical weight)

Sweden has gone to great and convoluted lengths to deny that in banning home schooling it has violated either the European Convention or the UN Declaration, using as a precedent the fact that fellow EU member-state, Germany, banned home schooling since Hitler passed a law in 1938, insisting - as does Germany that not only is education compulsory (which no one disputes) but that school attendance is too. Unfortunately for Germany, the United Nations has exposed a deliberate attempt by Germany to twist what the United Nations has, in fact, declared in a report made in 2006:

"To understand the German school system it is important to know that the phrase "compulsory elementary education" in article 28(1) of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child is incorrectly translated "Besuch de Grundschule für alle zur Pflicht", which literally means "compulsory school-attendance for all". This leads to the misinterpretation that education is to be equalled and reduced to school-attendance" (The UN Report on Education Abuse in Germany, Individual and Free Tuition Suppressed and Persecuted - Free Education Handicapped by an Old German Educational System: The Ultimate Call to Deregulation, Special Rapporteur of the Commission on Human Rights on the right to education, Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, Professor Vernor Muñoz Vilalobos, United Nations, Geneva: Berlin, 19 February 2006, p.6)

There is obviously a huge difference between "compulsory education" and "compulsory school attendance for all"....

http://nccg.org/freesweden/UN_abuses.html

We homeschool our two boys and are part of the HSLDA here in Kentucky. There are some states here in the US that are attemting to ban homeschooling in the event that there is not a parent in the home that is a qualified teacher.

Other states simply come down heavily on home schools with heavy requirements. I've seen bad homeschooling, but in a vast majority of cases, I think it far outweights traditional public schools.

I recommend it for anyone that is (or will be) on the fence. I know the biggest worry is that of socialization, but I have yet to see a family that homeschools that under-socializes their home schooling child. Granted, children are not around their peers 5 days a week for 8 hours, but to me, that seems excessive anyhow, even if it is in a "structured" setting.

"…he state shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions."

@Mujus: where does German or Swedish law violates this part? (The is assured anyways as it s only an entitlement). German compulsory attendance is directed towards "Grundschule" which translates into "elementary school" and comprises only the first FOUR years. Germany was actually criticised for extending it to 9 years. Further, the German constitution in conjunction with several rulings by the BVerfG guarantees that any form of accredited private schooling suffices the requirement including "microschools." (aka like home schooling circles) as long as they can provide sufficient evidence for providing schooling that is equivalent to the curricula of the state the children live in. Public schools and state schools usually conform in most of the curriculum, alternative schools (Waldorf, Jenaplan, Montessori, etc.) diverge a lot. The states are rather "soft" on enforcing school attendance if the parents provide evidence for effective home schooling AND that this does not preclude the children from age adequate participation in social live. This leads to regular examinations by home schooled (and alternatively schooled pupils) and oversight of the second part. All parents are free found schools with an alternative approach are guaranteed more funding per pupil than is provided for pupils on state schools. Only in cases where the parents did try to preclude children from age adequate social activities and/or were not in grade to provide evidence of an adequate curriculum, the state intervened. The fundamental reasoning behind this is that parents' responsibility is an obligation to their children (or kind of a duty) and not a right to be abused for ideological purposes.

If you are an evangelical extremist, you are free to found an evangelical extremist school as long as a 12 year old girl is not denied pocket money to spend freely (within the boundaries of law and only up to an age specific amount) or deprived of joining non-school club activities (as an example). In the German legal system the well being of a child has always a higher value over a parent's right over the child (in accordance with the UN charter for Rights of the Children). As far as I know this is the case for all Scandinavian countries, too.

I don't see how the wording of the treaty makes Germany in violation either. Nowhere in any UN treaty is their a international right to home school.

*there

Sweden does not violate it. Your links do not provide sufficient proof of violation of said rights.