I'm just that stupid, Invictus.

Everybody is "stupid" and "insane" except Invictus.

In the confines of this thread, that's almost true.

You're a less humorous version of Krellin at this point.

You're a joke to everyone here.

"An animal's, any animal's, life is of lesser value than any human's. You people really don't realize what a disgusting position you hold."

No, you don't realise how disgusting your position is. Humans are an animal, any animal's life hold some intrinsic value, and you can't seem to contemplate that your position is equivalent to slave-holder devaluing aboriginals or African 'savages'

Invictus hasn't come up with a single rational argument for why humans are more valuable than other life-forms. As usual, it's just insults and name-calling. The laziness is uncanny.

"you can't seem to contemplate that your position is equivalent to slave-holder devaluing aboriginals or African 'savages'"

No, my position is not equivalent. Aborigines and Africans are humans just like all other humans. The position of the slave-holder is wrong because the slave-holder treats them as less than human. What makes slavery wrong is that it's done to humans, not that it's done to another living thing.


It's amazing how you people try to spin this into a crazy idea.

Why are humans so special that only human life matters? It'd be nice if you could answer this question without insults, but I don't think it's possible.

No, at the time the 'common-sense' position allowed the slave-holder to say ALL white male humans are equal and superior to animals (including emoitonal women, and inferior races)

Just as you now move that line of equality a little bit, but still hold it arbritrarily devaluing chimps, bonobos, gorillas and oranguatans. (never-mind the animals we're actually talking about and possible chimp/bonobo-human hybrids)

It is equivalent because they both hold some arbitrary set as sacred and exclude all others.

My position is to deny any sacred-ness, and thus very different (as outlined above.6

Truly amazing.

People like Invictus & Semck would say it's more moral to have a vivisection on a monkey than abort a 15 week fetus.

These are the people that call others "evil".

"Truly amazing."

Answer the question, for once in your life.

I'm glad you are so easily amazed by equivalence...

Some things are self-evident.

"Some things are self-evident."

Or you've got nothing.

Like it needs explaining to anyone but those with the perverted moral compasses you people have.

Is this universal? I think i agree, my ethics are based on the simple idea that causing suffering (to me) is wrong, and by extention (and empathy) causing suffering to others is wrong. But i don't know that empathy is universal.

You find my moral compass perverse?

So you are in favour of suffering?

Lazy people who do nothing but grandstand always have loads of excuses for why they can never produce a single argument.

Invictus, let's see how 'perverse' our comparative moral compasses are.

Is it more moral to conduct a vivisection on a monkey than abort a human fetus?

This thread is truly exemplar of how polarizing webDiplomacy discussions get

"So you are in favour of suffering?"

And has no empathy. That's become very apparent.

I allow for a position where other people's suffering does not count equally to my suffering. But i reject it.

Similarily Invictus seems to be say 'we' are important but 'others' are not.

That is a general category, and actually pretty 'normal' for humans to divide the world into 'us' and 'them' - we evolved in tribal communities and there were benefits to 'us' and 'them' thinking - but 'self-evident' does not necessarily equate with 'True' - infact, i would argue that this kind of 'self-evidence' says a lot more about human psychology than about moral truth.

Invictus, if the answer is so obvious, why can't you give it?

@jamie - he said it was self-evident - does that not mean he knows it to be true without needing to think about it? The claim itself is evidence of it's own truth. Like saying 'By definition'

You can't expect an answer that is so obviously true that it has never been thought about.

And i make a similar 'self-evident' claim - making me suffer is wrong - that can tell you something about human psychology - or at least mymown psychology.

Because the answer, Jamiet, is so brash that he thinks no one will go along with it. Maybe he'll even lose his pillow friend semck.