Its not an option anymore. Mods can activate it on TD request, but a normal new game can't be made with the "wait for orders" option anymore.

All of the Masters games are in Wait-for-orders modes.

I know, goldfinger, and I'm not sure I like it.

It's the best thing this site has implemented recently.

I just think the positives of it outweigh the negatives, in controlled tournament formats especially.

And I mentioned it so 2WL would know what you are referring to

What would you say, as TD's, about the situation where a player regularly enters no orders, so he can take advantage of the "wait for orders" mode to give more time for exchanging messages?

Could you automate it so missing the deadline in a wait-for-orders game results in a 5% or 10% deduction of your site points?

That would be against the rules, Jamie. If you find someone is abusing that, just let me know and I'll look into it.

My suggestion would be for "Wait for orders" to only be active until Fall 1902.

I'm not sure if that would be the best idea, peterwiggin. Because in the cases that I have personally seen, Wait-for-orders most often gets triggered when there's a power outage, laptop crashes, or just checking the game an hour too late. Those sorts of situations aren't ones in which a player should be penalized for it, imo

I agree with Lando that it's a great feature and its a shame that it was deactivated. It saved my ass on a few occasions. The positives far outweigh the negatives, even if a player is abusing it. I think it could definitely be tweaked though - maybe incorporate a maximum number of times it could be used per player?

Or we could just incorporate an extend feature and throw out the wait-for-orders.

How would an "extend" feature work, bo?

It's a voting feature that's on vdip.

Mods can extend phases manually here too.

Extending a phase by a certain amount if a majority of players vote for it (so one beneficiary of a CD can't hold it up - pauses ought to work this way too, but for whatever reason refusing to pause in order to gain diplomatic position is within the rules even though refusing to unpause in order to gain diplomatic position isn't). It can only be used twice per game per player.

A simple majority? Like, 4 out of 7 in a classic game?

Yes. I've played three games from memory where I needed a pause and six of seven players voted for it with one refusing. Twice this was the same player and both times they said that they wanted to take my centers when I went into CD. The other time the player didn't respond at all when I asked why not. For some reason this is within the rules. I've discussed it with two mods and they've really not done much about it.

Because I know Draug is watching, I excluded from those three games players that said they wouldn't pause because it wasn't prearranged.

That "extend" feature sounds good actually, I'd support that.

I like it in high caliber games and tourneys like the masters, but I can see a newbie duchebag using it as a tactic to try to get his way.

Jamie, I had the same concern in the Masters tournament regarding holding up the game to complete negotiations. I let goldfinger know, and he sent a global message that players were not to negotiate until the moves were entered.

A reason I don't like the wait for orders is because I think most people miss orders because they have "lost the will to fight". Which a strong opponent may have been attempting to achieve. Giving them extra time, might give them the opportunity to recover their will, and undermine the efforts of the strong opponent. A winning player rarely misses a phase.

Perhaps code could be written for phases where in-game messages are disabled. There's not supposed to be any diplomacy during either the Retreat and Disbanding Phase or the Gaining and Losing Units Phase anyway, so adding an option to disable press in those phases is welcome. That same code could probably be used for games that enter 'wait-for-orders mode', disabling press automatically until the latecomer enters orders.

On vDip we have something similar. It got quite a lot of tweaks, because we had the exact same problems.

Currently it works this way:
- During gamecreation you can set how many turns the NMR-mode will work (defalut is the first 2).
- Instead of waiting indefinitely for a player to enter his orders it just adds a new phase-length to the current phase and you can set how many times this should happen.
- Lastly it does not wait for minor-powers (1 or less SCs).

One last thing I forgot:
It does send the country missing it's turn in CD so all other players have enough time to find a replacement (or the original player can enter his orders to make the game continue).

I think I like all of those feature Oli, except for the not waiting for minor powers one - though the vast majority of the time it would probably be helpful, there are competitive games where a 1 SC country can be extremely important.

But I like the proposals being made here. If there were a way to disable private press when wait-for-orders is enabled, I think that would get around much of the problems Jamie and others have raised. And the adding phase-lengths would get rid of a number of problems others have raised about the possibility of being perpetually stuck in wait-for-orders

Oh no Dickhead Devonian is back ..... he's very big on vDip you know !!

How are you doing in the Masters Nigee?

I think a good workaround would be to disable press for just the person who NMR'd. That's sufficient deterrent from using it strategically.

Of course, I don't know the complexity of programming that.

@ Devonian: " I had the same concern in the Masters tournament regarding holding up the game to complete negotiations. I let goldfinger know, and he sent a global message that players were not to negotiate until the moves were entered."

Oh, I didn't see a message saying exactly that. Goldfinger, as Masters TD could you confirm that's actually a tournament rule? What should we do if a player contacts us who hasn't entered any orders?

Jamie, he sent it in the global of the game I was in. I don't think it was sent to all games.

This was the exact message:

"Germany, when you get back please enter orders immediately. Everyone else, please don't negotiate with Germany until the phase passes through."

A disconnected player ina tournament setting ruins the sactity of the whole tournament. To suggest we should allow tournament games to continue with one player missing is ridiculous.
Wait for Orders allows the TD to find a replacement and maintains a valid game environment.
On normal games, I would say you shouldnt have it.

I think there are definitely some other situations where it could be useful. If I insist on playing a game with someone of unknown gender who happens to be pregnant, he/she will probably insist on this option, so it should be an option IMO.

And even though I say it in a jokey way the sentiment is serious.

@ dyager_nh: The problem I'm describing is when a player is *not* absent but is using the "wait for orders" mode to give them much more time to complete phases than was actually intended.

@ steephie: "someone of unknown gender who happens to be pregnant"

If they're pregnant, I think you could have a reasonable guess at their gender.

Are you serious?

(Because that was pretty much the joke)

"To suggest we should allow tournament games to continue with one player missing is ridiculous."

I don't think anyone is suggesting continuing play, but I think there should be repercussions for missing a phase. I think a pause immediately after the first NMR to get an explanation, or to find a replacement would be best. Incidentally, the Master's rules say that play IS to continue.

The Wait for Orders is only used in tournaments. It effectively pauses the game so the TD can figure things out without destroying the game.
If this happens more than once with a particular player, you should talk to the TD about it and he will decide whether discipline is necessary.

@Devonian
Jamie (who started the thread) did suggest removing Wait for Orders as his direct quote is "My suggestion would be for "Wait for orders" to only be active until Fall 1902."

Therefore tournament games would be ruined by a NMR player after everyone has invested their time.

Actually, somebody being pregnant only gives you information about their sex, not their gender. I think discussing this further carries the risk of totally derailing the thread, though.

Right. If they are pregnant, their sex is definitely "yes".