I think the ship should avoid, "Marine, drop a pulse grenade in this guy's stasis pod" suggestions early on. Generally speaking, a group makes better decisions than someone on their own. If the group has a really good idea, the power role person may feel pressure to follows through, that could be a tip off to the Aliens about who to target if the group's suggestion becomes reality during the night.

Hmm, Jeff, I'm not sure that vig is actually the way to find SK. In what way would vig help with finding him? The cop can find him with scan. He can be found if Mafia come out and say who they targeted, and the doctor reveals that he didn't save, or he can be found through analysis.

I don't think vig should start shooting just yet - there's no information for gods sake.

Wasting grenades this early is a bad idea, and something that the Mafia would benefit from. If the marine isn't able to use his attacks carefully, then he could be killing off crew members and simply furthering the Mafias rise to power.

Having played Vig in two of the other games, I think shooting early and often is probably the best option, as you're not all that likely to live more than three nights anyway and it's valuable to have kills that aren't influenced by the bad guys.

That said, the power roles are the town's only information advantage, so I don't think it's that great of an idea to talk about them a ton. If you insist on doing so, at least wait until the night phase, as we've got scumhunting to do right now.

@OB ... yes, I am recommending that we give him the benefit of the doubt, or, at least, I did when I posted that. I'm not as sold on that premise now, but I see no reason for arguing that we shouldn't lynch him to be considered defending him. We should build a solid case before we do anything. Since then, the case against him has become a lot more believable, and those early reactionary votes might pay off and give us some information about him that we otherwise wouldn't have. That's still to be determined. I'm not against voting for him if he becomes one of my top scum reads.

@stupidfighter ... if you're town, you should not explicitly be addressing a power role to do something right away. If you want to say "I suggest" or "I think X should do X," fine, but you are encouraging other players to tell them what to do when they have absolutely no pressure to do as you ask. It doesn't help us. Now you are trying to turn the attention back onto me and deflect it away from yourself. Instead of doing that, why don't you explain to us why you think we should all voice our opinions as opposed to deflecting and then drop the subject until nightfall so that we can actually hunt scum?

Phil, I wasn't calling for the crew to propose specific actions to the officers. I'm not opposed to the idea on principle, but Bo IS, and voted to dissect me when I DIDN'T make any such suggestions. His given reason for doing so appears to be that I was making such suggestions. He's arguing semantics rather trying to make a real case against me. It's yellow, and its a similar argument that was originally offered by the voteUc crowd, which I opposed.

Well, you made a suggestion that bo interpreted to mean that, I think.

Let's get back to sniffing.

Okay, after thinking i have reached the conclusion that not only is it not detrimental to talk about power roles actions, it is beneficial to the town, so long as we offer general advice. This is for the following reasons:

1. Optimization- While the PR are independent people, they are still part of the town. For the town to win we have to work together, not independently. By giving advice to the PRs we can develop an optimum strategy for the town to win, as opposed to hoping the power roles do something good for the town. Without teamwork, the town is doomed, and offering advice is one way we can work with the PRs.

2- Novice Factor- Given the number of new players in this game and the distrubution of roles, there is more than a fair chance one of our PRs are a novice, who has no idea to play said PR. Now the town can choose to let them go it alone and risk them making a suboptimal play, or they can offer advice that can help them contribute positively to the town.

3. Agency- As said, the PRs do not NEED to listen to the town, especially if they are experienced in the role and know how to play it.For all we know the vig may be great at reads early in the game, or be completely lost. As such the mafia don't actually know what the PRs are going to do, and can't build a profile to find them.
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Now I would like to give GENERAL advice to our PRs (I will be using generic terms like cop, vig, etc...)

Cop: One of the most important things in mafia is ensuring that the mafia is not leading discussion, and to know who is reliable. To satisfy both of these I suggest you target people who are under suspicion (or well trusted) who are active posters. As active posters direct traffic the most, knowing who they are playing for is paramount. This can also help us secure a leader of discussion who is town, and must promote town interests while we can ensure that the mafia's ability to misdirect is foiled.

Doctor: Now the doctor role is hard to play as a lot of it is based upon opinion. You should look for people who you think/know are:
a) town
b) likely to be killed
Unfortunately It is up to you (until we have some people cleared) to determine who fits these two categories best. You are going to have to put your mind in the place of the mafia to best figure out who they want to kill.

Vigilante: As tempting as it may be, unless you are amazingly good at reads, I suggest the Vigilante should target the following groups with his pulse grenades:
a) silent people
b) erractic players
This provides a threat to silent players to start talking, and for erractic players to straighten out their reasoning. And if they don't do so, they were not going to be of use to the town. This also allows the town to not have to waste a lynch on someone who the case against is going to be small due to little evidence, as you can pick them up. Your job also counteracts the Mafia or SK trying to kill active posters, as that incentivises quiet player, while you would incentivive active play. You are very important to the success of the town. As for your suicide, be sure the person you are attacking is mafia, you are risking your life to kill them.

I will talk about claiming later. But for now, let's see who I x-posted with.

@phil_a_s: The Marine isn't supposed to try to hunt down the Android right away. He's supposed to start whacking people he has "hunches" about. More deaths reveal more information about the deceased to the survivors.

If the Marine is killed by the Aliens or Android the first night, and there is a decent chance of that happening, then those 3 potential death blows to the Aliens or Android are wasted. The Marine's suicide by frag grenade is also valuable since one less innocent crew member will be in the game. Again, use it or lose it. There might only be 5 or 6 night time opportunities in the game.

Okay, thanks Vashta, the advice there looks okay to me. I don't think we need to discuss this further.

Just checking in. Busy today. Will try to catch up tonight.

FWIW, I am going to stay true to using the terms Aliens, Engineer, Marine, etc precisely because there are new players. Less confusion this way IMO. YMMV. SMH. FML.

Bo, saying my advice isn't helpful because the officers don't have to take it is plain tomfoolery. If they had to take it, it wouldn't be advice now would it? Unless you've got something to add to that bit of detective work, the defense rests.

Vashta, your advice seems to be in line with mine, and Phil is backing us up too. Any dissenting opinions?

As for the one point of contention on the matter- my stance on the marine remains. He should start killing immediately, because like Ghug says, there's no guarantee he'll live long enough to use them all even if he DOES start right away.

*"them all" meaning his grenades

Alright, let's move on from power roles, please. This discussion is wasting time that could be used looking for scum, and that makes all of you suspicious.

ew-ish. Relevant discussion. Nothing suspicious
bo_sox48: Neutral. He propells discussion but his intentions aren't clear. From what I read, every time the discussion began to shift to more useful discussion, bo would continually bring up discussion about lynch vs no lynch even though the general consensus was already pro-lynch.
stupidfighter: crew-ish
uclabb: Glad he began talking again. Nothing much to go from. Tbh he hasn't said anything suspicous. His argument is particularly mafia. Plenty of crew members would want to discuss star player strategy.
VashtaNeurotic: slightly suspicious . Highly reactionary. Its almost funny.
MintyBoy4: Not much to go from. Scared the shit out of me with that vote so maybe Crew. Stirs discussion.
Jeff Kuta: actively participates in discussion without rousing my suspicion Crewish
Maniac: Moderately suspicious. His popping in and out creates a strange vibe. He starts discussion but doesn't actually participate actively in it, which is something a good mafia player might do.
captainmeme: Slight crew?
Fluminator: Not sure why he voted for me. I didn't see a good explanation if any at all. Slightly suspicous but not as much as Vashta and certainly not as much as Maniac
ALEXTREME333: Slight scum. Very quiet. then gave an excuse as to why newbies should get a free pass on being quiet.
thdfrance: Neutrall
phil_a_s: Comments are generally helpful to the town. Slight crew.
OB_Gyn_Kenobi: Slight crew? Idk I need more.
Sandgoose: Until he starts making sense, hes slightly suspicious.

Sorry the first person is ghug

Uclabb's comments isn't * particularly mafia!!! Sorry I didn't proof read this.

Well gosh, Ghug, if you've got something you want to discuss, take the floor! We're all friends here. *chuckles* Fourteen of us are anyway. But if you keep stifling discussion by saying it makes everyone involved looks suspicious, well, that might sound a bit like alien propaganda to some. The crew seems to be in agreement that more talk is better for us, which in turn would make LESS talk better for them.

I'm putting a vote down on ##VOTE stupidfighter. I see him talking and getting around actually saying what he thinks of people as very suspicious. When we get closer to the deadline I agree that we should be consolidating our votes to 2 or 3 suspects but for now its important for people to be honest and forthright with their suspicions. That is something that crew should be happy to do and alien scum should be hesitant to do.

My top three are:
ALEXTREME333
Maniac
Vashta

Thoughts?

To clarify on vote consolidation, that is to ensure the mafia don't have nearly as much group influence on the result, which they certainly will have if our lynch votes are spread over 5+ suspects.

Can you elaborate on them? Give us reasons for your reads. Brevity is fine but give us something to agree or disagree with.

I want us to talk. Talking about things that don't help is talking without talking though. That's the issue.

Those voting for uclabb, Vash, or bo, go back and look for more evidence. Those not voting for any of them, make a compelling case on someone else. Everyone should weigh in on all three bandwagons. Reads on everyone are even better (I'll do those when I get back to a computer, which may not be until tomorrow).

I'll say that my top suspects are still uclabb and Vashta, for reasons I've already made clear. I don't see much to make me think bo is scum; he's seemed proactive and town-oriented to me. Stupid and Phil are both rising on my suspicion list as well, and Jeff Kuta's also up there, but I don't have any reasons outside of the continued discussion of power roles, so those are just hunches for now. Most of the other people either still aren't talking enough or aren't triggering any suspicion in me thus far.

My order based on Yoyo's consolidation:
1. Vashta
2. Maniac
3. ALEX

Honestly, I don't wee why ALEX is in there. I'd rather see phil or uclabb in the third spot

I don't see any reason to reduce discussion to three people that one person chose without justification.

That wasn't my intentions. I was looking more for what you guys' top choices are. then we can come a consensus. I gave reasons in my post a few comments above this one.

ALEX is too quiet. The fact that he has been online multiple times and hasn't said anything useful and gave excuses as to why he was going to be quiet makes me very suspicious of him. Saying stupid things is better than saying nothing and generally acting scummy.
##UNVOTE Vashta
##VOTE ALEXTREME333 until he talks

Can we get a vote count?