I will see you all around 5-5:30 Eastern.

Bump.

So, who's around?

the ghost of guak

Ghug is.

Ah, guak's ghost!

Haste me to know't, that I, with wings as swift
As meditation or the thoughts of love,
May sweep to my revenge.

So anyway, I've made my decision.

I'm taking my talents to South Beach.

Bo's corpse, infested by a demon.

I'm at work, I'll have real time to discuss more things soon, if necessary, but you seem sure your mind is made up, and I'm content to do so now.

But I can't spend the next 100 minutes debating.

So, first of all, the scum slip thing was -- unfortunately -- a lie. It seemed worth a try, right?

That's unfortunate. I was hoping you had something I missed.

semck wandered sadly through the empty streets of Jefferson Village. He had once had great dreams for this place, but slowly, every person he had respected had been killed off -- sometimes with his own help. He felt hopelessly inadequate to what he knew he had to do, and he cursed the many hours he had spent behind a bar.

He remembered back to when the promise of living where one man could make a difference in his town had seemed one of the golden promises of the west, and laughed bitterly. He had sat mostly in silence as two people he used to respect shouted accusations at each other. He knew one of them must be telling the truth or they'd have killed him there -- but which?

As he gathered up his rope, he sadly realized that there was only one way to go. Jefferson Village had been visited by three murderous thugs. If ghug was one of them -- well, if ghug was one of them, then he was a master criminal, that was all. He was no thug, and there were things going on more devilish than semck could fathom. It might be so, but a simple man must stop chasing conspiracies at some point and look at the evidence.

And if he looked at the evidence, he could see, shining around the tatters of a perfectly constructed lie, edges of evil in Yellowjacket's behavior. The slightly odd arguments. The inconsistencies on PE and on Warden. The scumslips that weren't scumslips at all. Maybe most, semck remembered PJ's odd, frenzied obsession with the man as they had pulled the lever on the gallows.

semck would surely still listen to arguments from his erstwhile friend -- he had an axe in hand, and nothing to fear while the sun still shone. And he would do nothing before sundown but replay in his mind the events of the horrible past week. But his mind was largely made up.

##VOTE Yellowjacket.

Damn. I was hoping you had something, or at least that you'd wait to admit it until YJ reacted. Seems like you've made the right choice anyway though.

OK, I'll make a brief response to this, and the look for me with about 30-45 minutes to spare.

The back and forth that he and I have been doing serves only to paint the pictures that we both want to present, it is up to you, semck to decide which is more convincing.
I feel that the little time we have remaining would best be spent with you asking me and ghug to resolve the questions you still have remaining in your mind.

Hopefully, you have already read for yourself the pages I cited where ghug has openly misrepresented me, and have already come to a conclusion on the truth or falsehood of these statements. If not, I strongly encourage you to do so before making your final decision. I can't do all the work for you; ultimately it is for you to decide if he has been portraying me in an accurate fashion, or, as I claim, outright ignoring clear points of fact.

I am more than happy to address any deficiencies you still have in my arguments.

Until later....

ghug/YJ, there has been a material disagreement between you about whether YJ voted for doc oc on day one only to get more information. YJ, I'll look for where you discuss this, but if you could provide page numbers, that would be great. @ghug, do you admit that you misstated YJ's motivations for voting doc oc?

I see you already did post those numbers YJ. Reading.

See my big post on the last page. That was the only reason he actually have for voting doc oc over meme.

@YJ,

I'm glad that you're directing my attention to the things that you think are important, and that I should be looking at. That is EXACTLY what I need you to be doing right now if you're town.

You say that I should look at ghug's claimed misstatements. You list four of them in your big post. Let's look, OK?

"1) claiming my only reason for wanting to lynch dr sox over capnmeme was “to gain information.” I listed many reasons, on P21-23 for preferring dr. sox."

I actually looked over these pages carefully. Every one of your reasons given on those pages can be characterized as being about information. Perhaps you got the page numbers wrong? Or maybe I missed something. Please direct me more specifically.

"2) Claiming I said I'd be “fine with lynching capnmeme... just before end of day,” because you were trying to paint me as scummy for saying “I told you so.” At no point did I make that statement close to end of day. I threatened him with a lynch with an hour or two to go if he didn't justify his actions (P19), but I did not follow through after he logged off, for reasons already given in (1). I never made a statement that would make a reasonable person suspect that I was "fine with lynching meme," and in fact I made several statements to the contrary."

It's true, so far as I can tell, that you did not say anything about lynching meme, late in the day. I don't think that ghug said you did. But I don't agree that you said nothing that a reasonable person could interpret as being OK with lynching meme. How about this, to uclabb on page 21:

"What just transpired between capnmeme and PE was huge. I read it as scummy on capnmeme, and townie on PE. Those were votes with *meaning*. "

Also on page 21, you raise the lack of counterwagon against dr. sox, which is actually a reason AGAINST voting dr. sox.

Wouldn't you agree that the quote I included makes it sound like you might be OK with lynching meme?

"3) Claiming that I ever said I preferred warden as a target to PE. I said (P44) that I would only switch off voting PE if I became convinced PE could not be lynched, and it would make a difference in lynching Warden over a less scummy target. I voted absolutely consistently with this"

I agree with you on this one. ghug has plainly ignored your clarifying statement, posted right after the post that seemed to say you did prefer Warden. @ghug, please address this.

"4) Claiming my only relevant scum read on warden was after his death was a foregone conclusion. I did it long before then (P44), and continually maintained I would switch votes if necessary."

ghug has addressed this one, claiming that this is not what he actually said. Here, if you could show me where he did claim this, that would be helpful. (Of course I'm looking myself).

Honestly, in some ways I feel more comfortable lynching ghug, YJ, but I just think he's made a much better argument. You're going to have to direct me to really strong points, with efficiency. I haven't seen them, and from ghug I have. He's painted a consistent picture of you talking a lot but taking safe positions, and mafia suspiciously distancing themselves from you on their way to the gallows.

Gave, not have

RE: #3
What clarifying statement am I ignoring? He said he'd vote Warden if he could cast a meaningful vote on him. He didn't.

RE: #4
I'm on my phone, so it's hard to look, but my point is and has been that he fought against lynching Warden the whole time and then started taking about how scummy he was when he was about to flip.

@semck, did you read my argument about my reads and actions night two through day four and how he's been intentionally misleading when discussing them the whole day?

@ghug re: #3. Immediately after the post you've been referencing, he posted, "^^correction to above, I mean to say I will vote PE first, and the others if I can make a difference."

And yes, I did, but I'll reread it.

By the way, another point for ghug that I find pretty strong, YJ, is his claim that if he were mafia, he actually had a winning strategy. That seems true to me.

Also YJ, if you have evidence to rebut ghug re: you being his #1 scumread in the p.50's, that would be relevant. But really, you should be using your own judgment about your absolute strongest arguments right now. I'm looking at everything as fast as I can, needless to say.

@ghug, AT THE TIME, what led you to say that PJ/YJ was the most likely scumteam?

OK, I'm back.

#1 I was trying to draw attention to the fact that Dr. sox vote was originally defensive, but that I still found him more scummy than capnmeme, yes, wrapped up in my suspicions of PE. I concede I was mistaken in the pages I referenced, ghug was not misrepresenting this one.

#2 You have to realize that it is possible and necessary to simultaneously read capnmeme's post/vote as scummy, while still preferring a different target. I acknowledged that capnmeme's behavior was scummy, but I clearly was not OK with lynching him. I tried repeatedly to draw others onto Dr. Sox, so I deny the assertion that I was at all wishy-washy .

#3 thank you.

#4 Wed. ~3 a.m. central: Ghug's statement that he quoted was the relevant one. The problem was that he was trying to paint my vote for PE as "defending" warden, and then criticizing me for going back just before end of day and saying, "warden was scummy," as if I was just trying to cover my tail. So I guess there was no factual inaccuracy there, just a bad attempt to paint me red.


It appears I should have been more careful with two of these.

By the way, an important note to both of you:

In PM earlier, Chaqa mentioned that he would not be on at the deadline, and he was really upset about this. It sounded like he'd be on near. In honor of a GM who's run an incredible game, would you both agree to wait till at least 7:30 before posting any tells, to give Chaqa a chance to get back and end the game himself?

He could have made a difference though, could he not have? Am I misinterpreting what he meant?

@ghug I see you've already answered the question about your suspicion of YJ at the time.