^ So, Brad? Of what relevance is any of that?

kinda gauls at you huh jamiet, being a 'subject', eh. i find it nice to live in a republic subject to no head of state. nice. the good 'ol US of A where sovereignty resides in the people.

@CAPT Brad,
Mustn't government, by its nature, be coercive though? If it doesn't have the power to carry out it's policies and provide punishment for those who are not in compliance with the law, then it wouldn't possess much real power, if any. This is true in the area of marital laws too, is it not?

you like it too, right ND? the good 'ol US of A where sovereignty resides in the people.

@CAPT Brad,
Unless you don't want to prohibit same-sex marriage under the law.

civ we have a Constitution here in the good 'ol US of A where sovereignty resides in the people. that means that the government when trying to be coercive is subject to removal. that is why trump is president and not obama

"that means that the government when trying to be coercive is subject to removal. that is why trump is president and not obama"

I was not aware that Obama was forcibly removed from office. I thought he came to the end of his term as President and, having served two full terms, was not eligible to stand for re-election again. Thanks for educating me.

Also Brad you might want to respond to ishirkmywork's very honest account of his wife's miscarriage - if we want to get back on topic.

Was the "lump of tissue" she miscarried actually a complete human person?

@CAPT Brad,
I follow your first two sentences. I am a bit lost with the third.

I am also a little bit confused regarding the relevancy of these things to the issue at hand. That is alright though.

@Brad: Absolutely!

Ben Franklin said after the Constitutional Convention, that we have a Republic.. if we can keep it. Right now, we are trying to keep it. The election of Trump against the rampant corruption of President O and Clinton was the first step to keeping the Republic safe.

Now, we have to discredit and stop the anti-Constitutional and anti-Republic forces like the vile SJW nutters.

This thread is pretty much a disgusting thing to have lingering at the top of the forum.

If you and your Republican sycophants want to lose the moral highground and continue to support evil sexist pigs, molestors, and sex offenders thats your deal. To try to turn the argument on its head and pivot into a philosophical debate about if abortion is an unecessary evil or not - is a cop out.

Gallup research in 2017 conducted surveys to determine if Voters felt Roe v. Wade needed to be overturned. 70% responded that they did not feel overturning Roe V. Wade would be a good idea.

53% of Republicans polled support the Roe V. Wade decision.

So to call democrats baby.killers and imply that democrats are murdering babies is a false conclusion. Yes 84% of democrats support Roe v. Wade.

Now why is any of this relevant?

It isnt. Doug beat Moore because Moore was a shit candidate and a horrible person. A democrat winning in Alabama is a pretty impressive feat. Whats even more impressive is that Doug is in favor of strengthening Obamacare, and is a gun owner. Hes in favor of improved background checks on guns but otherwise he is a very very very moderate democrat who is not by any means unlikeable by either party.

You just sound like a psychopath lately ND. Rambling about Democrats being responsible for slavery and blabbering on about cultural marxism. Nobody gives a shit.

Youve violated probably every rule of targeting groups of people by repeatedly talking about democrats the way you do. Its a shame youve been given a podium to spout berserk hate speech about social democracy and hardworking elected ifficials who are literally pushing agendas their CONSTITUENTS believe in. Yea people want better schools they want healthcare they want jobs and they want better wages. Republicans arent gonna be the party to deliver that. The only reason the Republicans took back every branch of government is because the electorate is fickle, theyre naive, and theyre easily duped into forgetting how terrible things were pre-Obama. They dont think things improved fast enough under him in 8 years.

Nothing has improved under Trump for the average voter. Nothing at all. There is not a single positive so far for the vast majoroty of people. They have all the power and all they can.come up with is a giant tax cut that we have to borrow money to pay for.

Hey shirk, I saw a few pages back that you believe one cannot hold a pro-life position without some form of antipathy toward women and/or sex, bizarre beliefs about God, or idiocy. I argued for a pro-life position that requires none of these things. Instead of making sweeping, incendiary, insulting and frankly ignorant claims, why not address my argument?

And Jamie, that's great that you respect me and not ND and Brad, but then why do you engage them and not me? That doesn't seem very congruent, to ignore people you respect but oppose and to focus your time on people you don't respect and do oppose.

@JamesYanik

I realize I never responded to your post. I was busy taking finals and didn't have time for it. I'll repost it here for everyone's sake:

1. Beverly Nelson was the trump voter, wrong person

2. the mall thing I was uncertain about

3. she ONLY added D.A. according to her, and the initial segment talking about the yearbook only talked about the signature with a message, which she only showed once she dug up the yearbook. she admitted to writing a note underneath it, so what? if I got raped by someone, and they signed my yearbook a year or so later, I'd make a note of that too, if I heard they made government office. plus, she told her family about this years ago and they stayed silent. it was only after the others came out that she did.

4. I'm not a handwriting expert but this made a pretty convincing argument

https://www.scribd.com/document/366939922/Handwriting-Analyses-Report-Dec-6-2017?secret_password=2Poj4YrvvPpsrLqPklFu#from_embed

5. "they're just looking for a moment in the spotlight" has no evidence. it's your opinion. frankly, I think it's a biased one.

I don't usually like slate because they are biased, but they still pump out raw data, and they have a DELUGE of sources in this article. I'd at least check it out

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_mountain_of_evidence_against_roy_moore.html




there is as much credibility to this as I've seen in similar cases in a LOOOONG time. if you don't believe in these allegations, then quite frankly you shouldn't be believing most of the stories coming out of Hollywood about sexual harassment there, because many of them have much less evidence.

My response:

1. That's not at all what you said. You said, and I quote, "keeping in mind that every confirmed voter of the accusers I've seen have been Trump supporters (takes away the 'plant' story)". I'm pretty sure that Beverly Nelson is not every accuser, and I've already proven that at least one of the accusers is an active Democrat. Beverly has, moreover, the least credible story, so she doesn't even really count.

3.The point is that she never mentioned that adding anything until she got exposed. It's pretty likely that she just made up the story to cover up her lies. As for he family, it's pretty plausible that they're just going along with it to save their daughter from national humiliation.

4. We live in the information age. It's pretty easy to get a hold on some document containing Moore's signature and forging it onto a new document.

5. You asked for a motive. I provided one. Can I prove it? No, I can't, but it at least proves the possibility that Moore did not in fact molest these (at the time) teenage girls.

6. I believe the Hollywood scandals, not because of the evidence, but because the perpetrators have admitted to their wrongdoing. If Weinstein were to have vehemently denied all allegations, I would give him the benefit of the doubt as well.

Actually that comment to Jamie kinda goes to brainbomb too, minus the specific observation of what Jamie said ofc.
Really goes for liberals in general that post here. I'm kinda disappointed that I argue what I believe to be at least reasonably thought out (whether or not you think I'm misguided) positions supporting conservatism, and routinely get ignored by the same people who constantly complain about ND or Brad or KB (pre-ban) posting.

Have y'all considered that maybe you get out what you put in here? Maybe if you want intelligent debate, you shouldn't spend all your time engaging people you don't consider to be intelligent debaters.

*mentioned adding

It's because he is a subject not object

Thats great Eden. Do you feel any shame having voted for a known sexual deviant?

Eden, did you vote for bill Clinton? Brain wants to know

Nah I was in Elementary school when Clinton was President. Hows that free govt healthcare treating ya brad?

@brainbomb How about we look at aggregates rather than single polls.

http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

Only 57% of Americans support abortion, with that number being 34% for Republicans and 75% for Democrats.

Eden, yes i fully believe the pro-life position involves wanting to subjugate and control women. Controlling sex, childbirth and the rules of motherhood is one way men have managed to stay so powerful in society. you may not hold these views overtly, but it is all part of a system.

Interesting. Those numbers are in sharp contradiction to the gallup overall poll which put support for Roe v Wade at 69%
The highest that number has ever been as of 2017.

I was raised Catholic. I dont find abortion to be a particularly great thing. But its also gonna happen whether legal or not. And illegal abortions are dangerous and create horrible problems. I think people should be responsible with what they do with their sex life. And im not talking about women. Men are the problem. Its pretty obvious.

That being said I support the democratic party for reasons beyond abortion. Abortion is a meaningless dead end topic to be politically divided about. Its not up to us. It was a Supreme Court ruling. No ruling has ever been handed down frivilously or lightly.

My issues as a voter are Education/Environment/Single Payer Healthcare/Relief of student loan burdens/demilitarizion/ overthrowing corporations and breaking them all up/ improving low socioeconomic areas/ creating lots of decent paying govt jobs/ banning guns.

I suppose a similar pattern might occur if you ask "Do you support the Second Amendment?" and "Do you support the right to bear arms uninfringed?"

Brain. I told you I don't get free healthcare. It is paid from a deduction from salary.

^ if you can direct me in my above post - to where I own slaves, support eugenics, believe in communism, and think the South should rise again please um... show me