Eh, but none of that evolved as believable. Shit on the prequels all you want, but Anakin knew what he wanted - to be able to love someone and two be a Jedi. Those were his two, very clear goals. The internal conflict arose because those clear goals conflicted with one another.

What are Kylo Ren's goals? Two movies in, and I don't know. That's bad writing. He just seems like a whiny teen who got his feelings hurt and wants to be taken seriously while doing nothing to merit it.

James, TFA wasn't great, but it wasn't bad. I at least put it above episodes I and II. It left the next movie open with multiple avenues to explore. That's why I was excited to see this movie.

Padme was ancillary to Anakin leaving the Jedi.

Leaving those kinds of avenues open we’re my LEAST favorite parts of TFA.

Right, Prado I'm not disagreeing on Padme. I'm saying - and you're agreeing - that Anakin's actions had meaning behind them. There was a reason for his conflict. What's Kylo's? I don't understand how he got here. Or why he would kill Snoke. Or hesitate to kill his mother after he killed his father.

Why didn't you like them leaving the next movie open for options to explore?

Because he thought Luke tried to kill him. And he killed Snoke because Snoke was one of the Old. Kill what is Old and all that. But he was uncertain for most of the film. He was driven away from the Jedi, but didn’t know anything of what he actually wanted to be. He had doubt and internal conflict, the likes of which Anakin didn’t have the time or room to have after he was complicit in the murder of a Jedi Master.

I’m kind of riding the Long Live the Supreme Leader train right now.

And the avenues felt like baiting some kind of reveal but that’s not how a well-executed reveal works. Rey’s parents being entirely inessential was AMAZING as a reveal because it played on the idea of expecting a reveal but then being important would kill it being a big thing to reveal because you know it’s coming. I also hated all the theories of Snoke being someone important that had already shown up in the franchise. These things can just be what they are. Exploration is entirely inessential. Imagine New Hope setting up that there’s some mystery about Luke’s father. It’d take away from learning it’s Darth Vader the whole time. Just let things be what they are, you don’t need to tease everyone.

random super mega powerful Sith out of nowhere appears, sneaks past Luke (super secretly) and corrupts his cousin

and we just all are going along with this shit.

REALLY?

(Also, strongly disagree with Kylo Ren and what he’s currently trying, and his motivations were shown to have futility in the end, I just like saying “Long Live the Supreme Leader.”)

Yes I am going to go along with it because Palpatine did the EXACT same thing.

yes, but that's fine because there's an explanation as to HOW palpatine corrupted Anakin.

Snoke came out of nowhere, is super powerful (CAN BRIDGE MINDS, throw Rey around.... geez!), and was able to corrupt Kylo at a tiny Jedi temple where Luke personally oversaw everything

at some level, a bullshit meter is going off

Disney prides it self in telling STORIES. WTF is the heart of the current Star Wars story? Is it always going to be Kylo Ren asking himself, what is my motivation?

Also, what a waste of Gwendolyn Christie's talents.

Phasma may not be dead...

Flames have a funny twisted way of bringing back villains as more vicious in this universe

But why did they even bother including the character? I mean, I get that they want a diverse cast with more women in powerful roles, but they have diluted the value of those characters by including too many and then casually discarding them.

Disney writes plenty of feel good stories that still make you deal with the feeling of loss. The little kid sitting next to me with their dad didnt even know who luke was. The dad was drunk and tried to explain that luke wasnt a bad guy. Kid didnt get it.

Disney is not showing luke to the new generation as a long lost protaganist. Im not sure who young people love in these movies but id imagine its Rey.

At least in Game of Thrones you have *many* episodes to develop a relationship with the character before they are summarily dispatched. That doesn't work in film.

Yes thats true. If you wanna watch a quality star wars film with death of major characters watch Episode 4 where the wise friendly old master gets killed by Vader, -or- watch Rogue One where in epic fashion everyone fuckin dies

This isnt a problem specific to Star Wars, you can watch 12 hours of LOTR and the only deaths of major - minor - tertiary characters are Theoden, Gollum, Boromir and Gandalf who respawns

If the kid didn't get it, then Disney failed to tell an effective story.

Its more complicated than that Kuta.

With star wars you are trying to please fans ages 6-70. You have elements that provide fan service, some which provide nuance, some provide furthering the characters people loved in the force awakens -because yea, alot if young people loved that movie even if we all hated it.

At some point you gotta know that a movie wasnt made for you... or only a small part of it was. Adults aged 26-70 arent gonna go see this movie as much as a crazed young fan. I watched return of the jedi probably a thousand times as a kid. Id sometimes get to the end and rewind back to the start of the ewok battle - over and over all day

Obi-Wan was specifically used to tell the backstory through the life of an old master. We were introduced to the to Jedi Order through him. He served a purpose within the story and his death was a catalyst for change.

Rogue One was specifically designed as a one-off. Definite goal in mind and it was a race to see the objectives met. Many people didn't like that everyone died, but that was a necessary heroic sacrifice. If I included it in my ratings, it'd be #3 after ESB and ANH.

I felt no loss for Hondo's sacrifice or for Phasma's fall. They were not woven into the Star Wars Universe fabric enough to care. No other characters will carry their memories, lessons learned, or scars and burns. Bleh.

"At least in Game of Thrones you have *many* episodes to develop a relationship with the character before they are summarily dispatched. That doesn't work in film."

This is why Season 7 of GOT was terrible. It provides fan service to dimwits without any explanation if characters journeys to their destinations. Travel is happening fluidly without resistance or struggle despite WINTER hitting the realm. There is no evidence of this alleged winter. There are no interesting humanizing moments between characters. Everything is pushed to plot service, often logically idiotic events that make zero sense. Why are ravens travelling at warp speed, how did sam travel 1400 miles through brutal winter with no money, no suppies, while trying to care for a frail wife a little baby? Why do skeletons have giant chains with them just lugging around?

This is because writers were just like... yea sure why not lets just do that.

For me, I *wanted* to like the characters more. That's why the let down in execution was even worse. I think that The Last Jedi was a wasted opportunity. It should have been so much better.

The weak parts of Last Jedi were the things happening on the main cruiser. The mutiny was totally pointless. I cant understand why they made that lady admiral. And why they spend so much time trying to make her seem like a evil/shady traitor who is really helping the first order - only to have it be revealed shes actually a hero. It felt stupid. The act of POE taking over the ship was a waste of thirty minutes of storytelling.

Its bad EDITING as much as it is bad writing. I still think POE might be a traitor actually. Based on this. And the attack at the start of the film, where he gets half their ships destroyed.

Phasma was never meant to be developed, yet. Theres plenty of faces poorly developed. Finn still isnt developed. Rey still isnt developed even though its obvious shes Kylo's twin. And Poe for the most part isnt.

For these movies action takes precedent over motivation. The events happening are more important than the key players involved, and why they care.

At least Luke got a backstory here. I loved the movie because of Luke. Thats all I needed lol

Poe got injected with something in the first film. As far as I can recall hes done nothing but help Finn escape and get tons of people killed since. Lol

“yes, but that's fine because there's an explanation as to HOW palpatine corrupted Anakin.“

In the prequels yes. But the series went YEARS without explaining it. They didn’t have to. And they don’t now either. The series can work with or without that.

"Imagine New Hope setting up that there’s some mystery about Luke’s father."

Lol that's exactly what A New Hope did. Just not as ham-fisted as the new trilogy.

No they didn’t set up a mystery. In New Hope his father was dead and Vader killed him and that was that.

Lukes father being Vader was always kind of cornball anyway. It was made even more cheesy by Leia being his sister. The story that Luke wanted to protect his friends before his training was over was good enough.

That added soap opera stuff was just George Lucas thinking he knew how to write a good melodrama.