Oh, missed OBGYN. I think he's being a bit overly reactionary, but maybe that's just me.

Re-read OB and his actions seem to be from a town mindset.
Phil saying he doesn't think Vashta is scum doesn't mean anything against Vashta. If phil is scum, he would probably be more comfortable defending Vashta if he knew Vashta was town.

Here's my reads. For the most part, the analysis is pretty bland, but there's not much to go off of yet.

Opening Reads:

ghug - Moderate Town - Not enough detail to be sure quite yet. I like the read on uclabb - it called out over interest in power roles, which I think is more telling than the other half of his point.

stupidfighter - Null - Voted for phil, who I find scummy, but also adamantly defended uclabb, who I also find scummy. Two weird actions cancel out. Need more.

uclabb - Slight scum - Bringing up the marine in his first real post was a terrible plan if he's town.

tvrocks - Null - He's clueless. Let's give him a day to figure it out.

Vashta - Very slight scum - My gut tells me his intentions are pure, but thus far, the evidence doesn't agree. Let's keep an eye on him but there are better bets for a lynching right now.

Mintyboy - Null - Hasn't posted anything of substance.

Jeff - See above.

y2k - If he posted, I missed it. He has lurked in the past and I wish he would come out and play. When he talks, he's a great player.

Maniac - Slight scum - He says he has a busy weekend, but already voted for uclabb without offering up a reason. Hasn't posted anything important since. Not enough to warrant lynch consideration yet but odd enough to catch my eye. Then again, it's Maniac - of course he'll be odd.

Yoyo - Slight town - He's gone with the crowd so far. Hasn't stuck out or said anything original, but he hasn't done anything scummy. Might be more of a novice thing than anything.

Captainmeme - No posts as far as I remember.

Fluminator - Town - Helping to push discussion forward, not saying anything too far out there but not holding back either.

Alex - Null - Nothing of substance.

thdfrance - Null - Nothing of substance.

Phil - Moderate scum - I would like to hear his explanation for so quickly defending Vashta. Till then, he's scummy.

OB - Town - Overreacting, yes, but it seems to be his personality. Trying to push the discussion forward, throwing accusations around like mad, and trying to get reactions.

SG - Null - I don't know what the hell he was talking about.

Guak - Null - Just as quiet as he was last game.

For the time being, I'm going to ##vote uclabb. I just cannot understand for the life of me why he would open with instructions for the marine. If there's anything that almost exclusively benefits the town in this game, it's the fact that role players can stay hidden and do their own thing until they are exposed later in the game. There is absolutely no reason to try to twist their arm now - unless, of course, you have ulterior motives to the majority of us. I await his response, along with Phil's.

In my defense, people's read on me in mafia is almost always slight scum, even in Mafia III when I was the vig, and there's Mafia II where both damian (SK) and ghug (vig) decided to night kill me as a VT. There's also Mafia I where I almost got lynched every single time, before I was the last townie lynched. Not that I guess any of that matters right now, but I just want to make it clear that I haven't done anything out of character. Also, that is the extent of my mafia experience, Fluminator.

I don't mind your opinion on the lynch versus no lynch. I am more concerned with how quickly you seemed to tire of speaking about it. It was a telling reaction. At the same time, you get brownie points for essentially starting that discussion and you continue to talk openly, so I digress for now. Hopefully that makes some sense.

##VOTE Vash

You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything.

I'm too tired for this thread. I will pick up in the morning. Till then.

@ghug: What am I not saying. I have explained my Mafia history (Asked by Fluminator), expalined my case for not-lynching at the end of the day (A debate I started to promote discussion), defended myself againsts OB's link of argumentation, which is rather exagerrated, and provided feedback on uclabb, where I said I found him slightly scummy and should be monitored. Where is this lack of substance?

You believe that we shouldn't lynch day one. That's fine, but wrong. What's more troubling is that you clearly know we're going to lynch someone, but you refuse to participate in the process. All you've done is defend yourself and say almost nothing about uclabb. It sounds to me like you want to make a lot of noise without stimulating discussion or linking yourself to the lynch of a townie. That's scummy.

Because I totaly haven't asked for people's input on issues, like a page ago, when I asked about what people thought of OB. If you want reads, I'll post them now ghug. And since when has the mafia ever voted no-lynch anyway?

Mafia would want nothing more than a no lynch. It means they all live no matter what.

Not when a lynch is going to reduce the town's numbers, and they can actually try to route it as they know who is townie and who isn't. Also, there has not been a mafia player who has voted No Lynch is any previous game.

That's because voting no lynch is naturally scummy and the rest of them have been smart enough not to do so. The scum want to direct as many kills as possible and limit information flow. You're advocating both.

Wait, so you argument is that scum won't do something that only town people have done. In fact, haven't even tried to promote a certain idea before, because it is so scummy they shouldn't even try. So does that make me scum, or cleared?

Scum do new and innovative things every game. Just because they haven't done it before doesn't mean it's not scummy. You're also ignoring the fact that that alone is not what made you seem suspicious.

True, it was someone else "defending" (and it was barely an offense) when I never asked for a defense. Kind of like what abge did with me in Mafia 1, which doesn't make me guilty. If anyone in that situation is scum, it's phil.

Nope, now you're intentionally misdirecting. It's that you refuse to talk about anything that will actually help us catch scum. You've been prominent in directing discussion, but you haven't pushed it anywhere useful. Just defending yourself and wasting time advocating something you know won't happen.

@ghug: Well, this argument is going nowhere. I'm going to take a couple minutes and do some preliminary reads. I hope you do the same.

"This argument is going nowhere. I'm going to address the exact issue you're pointing out and pretend it's my idea instead of a defensive response."

1. ghug: Moderate town. Despite disagreements, his style fits both his character, and his motives seem to be town-oriented. He is also well organized, direct and steadfast in his views.
2. bo_sox48: Slight scum. For the record this is not about the ideas he supports, but for some reason his press reads like he is impersonating a townie and very un-bo like.
3. stupidfighter: Null. Needsmore posting.
4. uclabb: Slight scum. Will admit that he has been somewhat cryptic in his intentions, however he could just be off to an odd start.
5. tvrocks: Slight town. Strange to say after so little said by him, but he honestly seems like a townie trying to learn the ropes.
6. VashtaNeurotic: Hey, that's me!
7. Mintyboy4: Null. More info needed.
8. Jeff Kuta: Null. more info needed.
9. y2kjbk: Has not posted.
10. Maniac: Null. Playing like a Maniac and needs to play more.
11. Yoyoyozo: Slight scum. At least OB actually explained why he found me scummy (which was mostly because of phil). Yoyo just said, "yeah, he's scummy" and then had to be coaxed off of me, by bo.
12. captainmeme: No posts yet.
13. Fluminator: Slight town. Good analysis, promotes good discussion.
14. ALEXEXTREME: Null. Needs more posts.
15. thdfrance: No Posts yet (I think)
16. phil_a_s: Slight town. People are going to hound me for this, but I honestly don't think he is wrong for wanting to put pressure on uclabb. I also don't think he defended me so much as he was expressing a null read, not to mentioned he closed with a remark that did not ask for the vote to be retracted.
17. OB_Gyn_Kenobi: Slight SK read. Someone has to be the SK and i think OB has done what one style of the SK is known for (aka the Jok3r style), stirring the pot. He has decided to put all his chips on one overblown argument, used faulty reasoning, misunderstood and disregarded information, and greatly simplified arguments. Even if he is town, I'm not sure he is beneficial aside from a different perspective. Though, he could just be very reactionary.
18. Sandgoose: Slight town. Slyguy effect (too erratic to be mafia).
19. guak: No posts.

##VOTE bo_sox48

Reads "un-bo like" as scum? The fuck is wrong with this guy?

@Jeff: You want to elaborate on that?

Vash, why do you care about separately IDing the android right now? There's almost no chance of doing that successfully, and scum are scum unless you're the mafia.

@ghug: Yes, scum may be scum, but how an SK plays is not how Mafia plays. To say otherwise is a simplification of motivation and intent. Also, if we lynch the SK, we get only 1 scum kill per night, but we need all four mafia for that same feat.

And you know how the SK is going to play how? The SK (this is what makes it flawed as a role, btw) has no connections and no reason to act differently than a townie. All you've done by IDing OB as SK is avoid giving an actual read on him.

Well since Flu is taking an informal census, I'll confess- I haven't ever found myself in the unfortunate position of fighting off a criminal menace disguised as some of our own.

That being said, I might not have the "reads" the eggheads keep going on about, but Uclabb doesn't strike me as suspicious. As I mentioned before, his arguments were made just after we became aware of the alien menace and didn’t have much to go on. I don’t agree with his stance on the Marine- that NOBLE sonofabitch should kill early and often, target whoever he finds suspicious, just like the town. With the android and those alien bastards on a RAMPAGE, we can’t afford for our best fighter to go down without… well, fighting.

However, where I do agree with Uclabb is that we should avoid killing loudmouths (like Vashta) without a compelling reason, since communication is key to victory in this war. We should also voice our opinions on what our star players, the Marine, Engineer, and Security officer, should be doing.

To the marine, I already said this, but kill, kill, KILL THOSE ALIEN BASTARDS! Slip me a grenade if you don’t have the balls to take matters into your own hands. Target the quiet ones unless you’re confident you’ve sniffed out a rat, we can’t afford to lose our top thinkers.

Engineer, I don’t really have much for you. Some of our top thinkers have suggested the aliens and the rouge droid might try to kill our top thinkers. Hell, it’s what I would do. Maybe protect whichever thinker you least suspect.

Security officer, I’d be checking up on the loudest voices. The more someone talks, the more valuable it’ll be to know whether that talk is coming from the true blue crew or a body snatcher.

Since I was asked why I defended Vashta, I'll respond. The lyncher vs. no-lyncher mindset never helps town. It splits the town into two groups, which can be manipulated by scum much easier. I didn't read him as scum, and I saw a better argument elsewhere. I also didn't oppose pressure per se, just wanted to know why OB was voting him.

@Jeff Kuta
When voting for a specific lynch, please put forth an actual argument for that lynch, or support an argument someone else put forward.