http://twitter.com/#!/InjusticeNews

http://www.informationliberation.com/?category=Tyranny/Police%20State

http://www.copwatch.org/

20% tax on NET salary...?

Per definition, tax should always be deducted from GROSS salary, right?

Gross salary = Salary BEFORE tax
Net salatry = Salary AFTER tax

...or what am I missing...?

ok, i'll answer 1 by 1...
this one is from goldfinger:

"why don't you get that if Greece goes down in debt it will have a domino affect and push other troubled economies over the edge? Its time for everyone, Americans included, to tighten their belts, suffer the losses for a decade or so, and make the necessary government and societal reforms so that this will never happen again"

ok, 2 things; this will happen again untill someone recognices our right to work 1 day per month and live in a good wealth, since we CAN...
and obviously the Greek population is thinking of it self in first place, and so is the rest of the world... and the Greek population won't just reform because their people say so, they will because the world says so... and you think it's just the Greeks but it's in whole of Europe, don't know about America... however, as pointed out before the Greeks are the weak spot, as soon as another country starts raising huge taxes the people there will riot like hell too... so everybody tries to come out of the reform as good as possible, of course that happens when it goes quicker so that's why they riot, over here in The Netherlands the taxes are not that high but once the reserves will end and then here the taxes will get higher and we start rioting here, so in first place everybody tries to survive the crisis and when you can't wait much longer you try to speed up the reforms by rioting, this is my point of view...

from jmo:
"But, no they are only concerned with their own problems. Interesting how there are tons more unemployed people then there are protesters, I wonder what those other people are doing...maybe trying to make a living and find a job instead of wasting emergency response units valuable time."
they are doing real bussiness i guess... without taxes, even if you just sell clothes you've got huge profit, but guns and drugs are more popular... :)

from Krellin:

"The ironic thing is an idiot Communist like Putin -- who supports a form of government that, throughout it's history and in every country it has been tried, has used authoritarian and violent means to suppress the people -- complaining about the government using force to quell a riot."

it's funnier if you say it like this: he's mad because a Iraq-War-vet accidently got hit by policemen trying to quell a riot with a small bit of force while he thinks riots should be quelled by force... (and so does Iraq if i'm right...)

"The fact that he is an Iraq war veteran is meaningless."

Right. A Marine is only a marine if he's shooting brown people in another country. But the fact that he's served his country is somehow lost when he decides to exercise his first amendment rights.

It has a LOT of meaning that a member of the military is standing with the protesters. It means that this movement ISN'T just a bunch of hippies like you all want to paint them to be.

http://www.in5d.com/occupy-wall-street-the-marines-are-coming-to-protect-the-protestors.html

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/10/26/group-of-marines-lead-protesters-to-re-occupy-park-in-oakland/

"accidently got hit by policemen trying to quell a riot with a small bit of force"

Accidentally? A closer look shows the police purposefully throwing tear gas directly into the crowd of people trying to help Scott.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=player_embedded

A riot? There was no riot. It was a peaceful demonstration with protestors who were lawfully engaged in their First Amendment rights to assemble and to petition the government for redress of grievances.

http://dailybail.com/home/john-lennons-message-to-occupy-wall-street.html

A small bit of force? Scott is in the hospital and will likely suffer brain damage from the devastating blow to his head.

http://dailybail.com/home/update-scott-olsen-to-undergo-brain-surgery-statement-from-o.html

Folks...we are past the point of no return now. This movement isn't going away no matter how much you complain...no matter how much you want to demonize the protesters. The police fired the first shot. That is a fact that you cannot tiptoe around.

"Owing the Greeks money! Fuck that! Those idiots caused their own problems. Let them get themselves out like we did, twice!"

Right, the Germans had no Marshall Plan. They pulled themselves up by their bootstraps.

Well actually that's true...about the East Germans.

So many things to refute....but none of them Putin's comments, hmm.

In class at the moment, will come back in a few hours

"Honestly, Fasces - it is of my opinion though that we need to get out of debt as quickly as possible and increase the national savings rate...or at least get it out of the negatives for longer than a quarter or two. But that is a real question up for debate: is it better to maximize government revenue to reduce the deficit, or is it better to reduce taxes and increase consumption? Or perhaps does the maximized profit reflect the highest level of consumption.

But it is of my opinion that lower can be better, but is not always better. And then there's the whole ideological dispute between efficiency and equity. But to go about how each rate will effect consumption, revenue, and tax burden on each income level, first off I would need lots of time and whole lots of data. This is the kind of thing dissertations can be done on. But also, I wouldn't trust any first that has "Fiscal" in its name, nor who staffs "tax experts" to answer what are purely economic questions. If these "Tax experts" have economic degrees then I will stand corrected, but honestly this is a good question for economists to answer, and deals exclusively with general equilibrium theory "
However economists can't agree on this. Right-wing economists think the 9-9-9 can work, left wing or even center disagree.

I personally like it because it adds a sales tax, which the US should have and simplifies the tax code, which is desparetly needed.

And as show by stat can. The Middle class's income tax is the least elastic. Meaning the peak on the laffer curve for the Middle class is significantly higher then the middle or lower class. So if we raised taxes for the middle class and lowed for the upper class, tax revenue would increase. The problem with that is no politician could sell a increase in taxes for the majority of Americans.

rest later

@perry
by net salary I mean the salary after social security reductions. social security reductions are already 40% of the salary.
for example someone who is having a salary of 1600 euros gets paid with 1000 euros (600 goes to social security) then the 20% tax comes to those 1000 euros.
So someone with a 1600 e salary actually takes 800 e after social security and taxes.

"1. French expert: Germany owes Greece 575 billion Euros from WW2
The economist, member of the Council of Economic Analysis has calculated that the Germans owe the Greeks at least 575 billion euros from the second world war. He believes that Europe needs to absorb excess debt refinancing it with the very low interest rates in exchange for structural reforms.
in French
http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-poli...ece-184540.php"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/21/germany-greece-greek-debt-crisis
say the opposite...

"From this year the 12.000 limit is banished and professional will be taxed from 0 with 20%. that means earning 10.000 per year gives a tax number of 2000 euros...
Even unemployed people receiving 300/month from the unemployment department will have to pay taxes... "
Thats still signifcantly lower then the 50% you claimed earlier...

"Owing the Greeks money! Fuck that! Those idiots caused their own problems. Let them get themselves out like we did, twice!"
whos we?

"perry it's 20% tax starting from the 1st euro you earn."
But its still only 20%...

"Right. A Marine is only a marine if he's shooting brown people in another country. But the fact that he's served his country is somehow lost when he decides to exercise his first amendment rights."
He never said that, but if he breaks the law, being a Veteran doesn't exempt him from being punished...

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=player_embedded

A riot? There was no riot. It was a peaceful demonstration with protestors who were lawfully engaged in their First Amendment rights to assemble and to petition the government for redress of grievances."
yes, because that youtube video clearly looks peaceful...

So you think it's rational to pay 3200 euros tax for getting 16000 income?
if yes that means that you think it's rational that someone who gets 1500/month (16000/12) should drop to 1067/month (16000-3200=12800/12=1067)?
If yes then you think it's rational to have your wages drop by 29% (1500-1067=433/1500=29%).
if yes then I rest my case.

dude. The same salary in Canada would pay $3300 atm (counting provincial income tax at ontarios rate). Its lower then our tax rate so of course I can say its fair.

Its JUST 20%...

@hellalt - Here's some numbers for you...

$85,000 salary per year
$5,060 per month take home ($60,720 per year)
28.5% reduction in gross pay.

Your numbers aren't that uncommon, hellalt.

Fasces, when people start shooting at you, you're not going to just stand there quietly and wait to get hit. The only violence in that video is coming from the police. No one is attacking the police, the only reason they went forward is to try and help the person who was hit. But as always, the poor police in their riot equipment with shields, batons, tear gas, flash bangs, horses and pepper spray might actually get touched once. Poor them.

Also, re 9-9-9, fuck any sort of sales tax or VAT. Taxing the poor to feed the rich.

Yes, I am sure the people who threw firecrackers at the police were doing so to entertain the police with a pretty fireworks show, doubtful it was meant as anything but a "peaceful" gesture. Just like the rocks the protesters were throwing...

Where in that video? The only time anyone looks vaguely as if they are throwing something is around 0:11-0:13. One person, look at that violent mob. He is picking something off the ground, really premeditated violence. And I'm sure the police are so hurt by his attack. Firecrackers and rocks really stand up to flash-bang grenades and rubber bullets.

@jmo, there was no reason for the police to be there in the first place.

*If* there were OWS people throwing firecrackers and rocks at the police, I can pretty much guarantee you they were 'undercover' kops who were there to provocateur trouble and justify a crackdown. This sort of practice has become old hat, and while the protest culture is certainly on to it, they apparently haven't come up with a counter to the tactic.

"$85,000 salary per year
$5,060 per month take home ($60,720 per year)
28.5% reduction in gross pay."

Draug, how much is sales tax in Ohio, and (if you don't mind) how much are you paying in property taxes? non-Americans and communists on this forum seem to have this vision of the US that we're some wildly undertaxed laissez-faire fantasy land, but a lot of middle and upper-middle class taxpayers have a tax burden that is pretty comparable to a lot of those European socialist utopias (when state, local, and social security/medicare taxes are figured in) from what I can tell.

"@jmo, there was no reason for the police to be there in the first place."

http://news.yahoo.com/police-break-protester-camp-occupy-oakland-144411394.html

You mean besides the protesters making unsanitary conditions, the protesters refusing to let emergency personal enter the area, and the reports of sexual assault filed against the protesters right?

@Tolstory, I'm not even going to respond to that since that is delusional paranoia but here: http://rt.com/news/occupy-oakland-protest-violence-773/

Please don't get me wrong, I find it horrible that a man was injured, but that does not mean I am willing to throw logic to the wind and accept any random "the police like hurting people" theory that is blown out of proportion by an event like this.

"@Tolstory, I'm not even going to respond to that since that is delusional paranoia but here: "

If you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow
(see also any of the dozens of other videos linked from this one)

So the best video you can come up with proving the police are out to get us is a video from 2007 filmed in Quebec...well I'm convinced now.

"that does not mean I am willing to throw logic to the wind and accept any random "the police like hurting people" theory that is blown out of proportion by an event like this. "

Police violence is systemic. See links above.
We live in a police state.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The term police state describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[3]

http://www.alternet.org/story/36553/?page=1

http://thisistheendoftheworldasweknowit.com/archives/20-signs-that-the-united-states-is-rapidly-becoming-a-totalitarian-big-brother-police-state

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/17-signs-that-the-united-states-is-becoming-a-totalitarian-police-state

http://bigthink.com/ideas/14384

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/10-examples-to-show-anyone-that-still-believes-we-live-in-the-land-of-the-free-and-the-home-of-the-brave

@Tolstoy - We lease our new place under a lease option to buy contract but we are in the process of getting a mortgage and buying it outright. But I believe the property taxes in Fairfield are around $950 per 100K so our place would be about $1175 per year and Ohio is either 5 or 5.5% with counties tacking on extra so that sales tax is 6.5% to 7% depending on which of the 4 counties you shop in on the Ohio side of Greater Cinci. Now, there is an exclusion for food products not eaten at a restaurant (except soda which isn't considered a food due to a lack of nutritional value, it's always taxed).